rhythm junky
Tiger Talk Pro
Reged: Mar 06 2006
Posts: 63
Loc: Seattle
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Hello everyone.
The studio post had me thinking a lot. I read an article on Josh Freese and someone said a while back that they hired him for his abilities to land in the middle of the beat off to the left a bit. How is it possible to do that. The click is a short note so how can you hit a little to the left EVERY hit; I always try to execute right in the middle. I want to know because I have trouble in the studio a bit and I want to get to a point where if a producer asks me to play on top, or a little behind I i know what he is talking about. Any great click exersises for this?
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"let the drummer get some of this funky soul"- James Brown
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pljones
Tiger Talk Pro
Reged: Aug 30 2006
Posts: 106
Loc: London, UK
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I've not tried -- like you, I'm trying to keep on the click! But how about thinking about it like a third arm and you're trying to flam against it, either with you leading (i.e. you're coming down just before the click) or with the click leading? As ever, if you can record it and listen back to how you're doing, it'll help as well.
Thinking about it, though, I'd probably prefer to have a bass-line to groove against where it was going to "sound better" ahead or behind the beat and then practice with that.
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Get jamming
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roger strange
Tiger Talk Pro
Reged: Dec 09 2003
Posts: 1119
Loc: Nova Scotia Canada
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Here's how I started being able to do that. When I first started in the studios I was told to lean into the time with the snare on one tune in the middle of the session.
I'm a right hander basically. I thought for a minute and that's about all the time I was given to think about it anyway. It was a commercial and we were working against the clock. Luckily it was a straight 8th tune. I played my hands in the lR tight Flam position. After that I found the whole kit adjusted to that leading the time off my snare. Later I was asked to pull back the time and just reversed the whole process. That's how it started for me. Now I just feel it and either climb on the tracks or pull back on them. It's now a feel thing and I'm told the body language shows it.
I find I do that live at times when I get lumbered with either a rushing or dragging bass player. I went through setting the hi-hat foot dead on the 2 & 4 and working the rest of the groove in front or behind the time with the rest of the kit. These days I just seem to settle either slightly below the time when asked or climb on top of the beat. Look at the time as a thick line on a piece of paper and play either towards the bottom of the line or near the top of the line. I also rend to tweak the snare with one lug about 1/4 turn for climbing on the time and dropping off the two lugs nearest me about 1/4 of a turn to drop near the bottom of the time line.When I'm working with a click I can either here it as an echo when I'm climbing or I can here it just edging me ahead for pulling back. Another trick I use to widen the click sound is to use a mambo bell sound rather than a snap on the click. That sound has just enough impact and sustain to allow me to play on top of it or slightly behind it. Practising, you might try playing a basic groove to a click, preferrably with that mambo bell sound, and then one by one either allow one of your limbs to either lead the rest of the click or pull behind. Then two, then three and then all of them. I used to write exercises for my students that did that very thing. Hope this helps you!!
Edited by roger strange (Sat May 03 2008 10:12 AM)
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Timsan
Tiger Talk Trainee
Reged: Apr 18 2008
Posts: 23
Loc: QLD, Australia
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A good clue is that if you have the click in your cans along with the drums and you cannot hear the click at all, you're dead on top of it. You can then adjust your playing to sit just behind or just in front of the beat.
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Yamaha drums - Meinl cymbals - Pro Mark sticks. http://www.myspace.com/funkengrooven
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roger strange
Tiger Talk Pro
Reged: Dec 09 2003
Posts: 1119
Loc: Nova Scotia Canada
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In any event, after one has spent God knows how long to perfect dead on playing while at time Chaos is happening around you. You then to learn how to become choatic yourself in a very organized fashion. Much like the Universe. The one that I found the most challenging was of course playing just behind the time without dragging. As always, a drummer that leans into the time is always the better one to have in a live band because a drummer that naturally drags is just a Royal Pain. That skill of pulling back on the time is one that takes a lot more finesse. Drummers that can do that are always in demand. I call it dropping down on the time rather than jumping the time. It's like learning to pull your punches in sparring. I worked hard and long to perfect that technique as a FEEL when required, and it stands me in good stead today. When you can move around in the time without dragging or rushing you'll always work. It's how you work a piece of Music instead of just baby-sitting it. When working behind a vocal artist it's working with their lyrics and phrasing. When working behind an instrumentalist it's working with their phrasing. In all it's working with what the tune is saying rather than just crunching it out.That's the real difference between programmed tracks and live tracks or playing live. And that's why live drummers are back everywhere after the dry period of the late 70s to mid 80s.
We can make some of the kit lean and at the same time make some of it pull and still play some of it dead on. Machines can't do that!! It's the difference between pure math and Human feel and emotion.
Edited by roger strange (Mon May 05 2008 10:09 AM)
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Timsan
Tiger Talk Trainee
Reged: Apr 18 2008
Posts: 23
Loc: QLD, Australia
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^^^^ I like you. Can I use your material when I'm pitching my services to some of my 'one man band' muso mates? THey seem to be stuck in the '80s where drummers were temporarily obsolete.
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Yamaha drums - Meinl cymbals - Pro Mark sticks. http://www.myspace.com/funkengrooven
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roger strange
Tiger Talk Pro
Reged: Dec 09 2003
Posts: 1119
Loc: Nova Scotia Canada
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Of course. You can also tell them that basically the studios knocked down the walls over here at the end of the 80s to put the drum booths back in. The above reasons were defintitely part of it. The second part was the fact that it takes many hours to build a good set of drum tracks by computer and then craft them into a tune. It's also a way of avoiding inter-action with other Human beings on a creative level. Head in the sand stuff. A live player who has the skills can cut a tune properly in about 2 hours. It's faster, less expensive and you get the real drums rather than something that imitates a drum sound but still has to come from live drumming sounds. I went through five years of no calls for recording work and when the change happened I was suddenly being called for two and three sessions per week, every week for the next ten years.
Edited by roger strange (Mon May 05 2008 10:12 PM)
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rhythm junky
Tiger Talk Pro
Reged: Mar 06 2006
Posts: 63
Loc: Seattle
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-I was told to lean into the time with the snare on one tune in the middle of the session. I played my hands in the lR tight Flam position
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So you mean that the groove was spot one with the click but the snare was leaning in meaning it was flamed a bit??? Any big hit songs that were recorded like this examples?
-Practising, you might try playing a basic groove to a click, preferrably with that mambo bell sound, and then one by one either allow one of your limbs to either lead the rest of the click or pull behind. Then two, then three and then all of them. I used to write exercises for my students that did that very thing. Hope this helps you!!
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This is very helpfull Roger. Thank you, but I guess it is one of those things that needs to be seen as well. I worked on the groove exersise today and I was flaming(lR) the snare for a bit then I played the snare in the middle and flamed the bass drum for a bit. Syncing up the hi hat just seems impossible at the moment.
I have some Steely Dan records and I know that there are some big session cats on there. Do you know of hand of some tunes that are in front or behind the beat? Do shuffles tend to be played behind the beat? Sorry for all the questions but I want to have a superb groove one day.
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"let the drummer get some of this funky soul"- James Brown
Edited by rhythm junky (Tue May 06 2008 12:56 AM)
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keep_wit_it
Tiger Talk Pro
Reged: Aug 28 2005
Posts: 1468
Loc: CA
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I always aim for the center, it just feels good to me. Since I always aim for the center if I am say a 64th or I flam behind the click, it sounds off in the recording because I can hear that I played catch up say one or two beats later resulting in recording another take.
Maybe if I practiced the others I could add more depth to my groove.
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dont give up!!
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Tea Bag
Tiger Talk Pro
Reged: Sep 16 2004
Posts: 1129
Loc: Canada
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Here's one example off the top of my head;
- leaning on the HH; Love Shack (B-52's). A slinky groove, pushing all the way through. it's a slow meter but sounds fast! If you play it a beat too slow or fast it sounds wrong - too slow it drags; too fast and its Alvin & the Chimunks.
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