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DrumKnut
Tiger Talk Trainee


Reged: Jul 09 2008
Posts: 11
Loc: BC, Canada
Modifying a cymbal
      #42918 - Sat Jul 12 2008 03:00 PM (204.174.81.148)

A while back I bought a second drumset because it was too good of a deal to pass up. It was a standard 5 piece and came with a beautiful sounding zildjian ride, a nice sabian crash, and not so nice no name hats, as well as another cheap crash. I've been using the nice ride and crash, as well as utilizing the extra drums, but I'm looking for some way to change/modify the sound of the crap crash into something I can use (holes, rivets, hanging chains, melting the whole thing and turning it into a decorative lamp, I dunno). At the moment it sounds like it really, really wants to be a china cymbol, but the sound is very muddy, and the tone is not nice at all. Any suggestions?
The hats are also available to be messed with. When I got them they were pretty dinged up, sounded terrible, and were so bent they didn't sit flat on each other. I don't want to throw any sort of cymbol away, so I need to figure out some use for them.
Any ideas on how to change them so they'll still be usefull from a percussion point of view, or in any other sort of way would be greatly apreciated. Thanks

P.S. Someone on another thread mentioned yet another thread on "reusing old cymbals", but as of yet I haven't been able to find it. However if it is indeed out there somewhere, I apologise for taking up unecessary space
P.P.S. Okay, so I found the thread, but I'll leave this one up anyways as any ideas will be more specific to what I have

Edited by DrumKnut (Sat Jul 12 2008 04:52 PM)


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Alistair
Tiger Talk Pro


Reged: May 17 2006
Posts: 407
Loc: New Zealand
Re: Modifying a cymbal [Re: DrumKnut]
      #42930 - Sat Jul 12 2008 06:29 PM (222.153.173.88)

What sort of sound do you want from them? I have very little experience with this sort of thing, but if you said the kind of sound you wanted, people like Roger or James could help you with modifying them.
If you wanted the crash to sound like a China, you could try turning up the edge?
And maybe try stacking the hats to make a small trashy crash cymbal?


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membrane
Tiger Talk Trainee


Reged: Jul 11 2008
Posts: 11
Loc: Cincinnati,Ohio
Re: Modifying a cymbal [Re: Alistair]
      #42937 - Sun Jul 13 2008 12:59 AM (24.27.189.148)

May i say...a little trick that works because i love pies Cymbs)...i have some high end zil's///K's to be exact.and some pasties..well...they were cracked like 3/4 of an inch,on the edge ,so i marked a new circle with a marker on an 18 and made it a 17,cutting off an inch all the way around the circumference? of the cymbal,with a pair of "Swiss" metal cutters(you know they come in left,right or stright cut).Then i smoothed out the edge (very sharp)with a disc sander then a belt,then a file.and you know,to my suprise ,they sound better now!.i've cut 3 so far with outstanding results.I know this was not meant to be but it's better than throwing them away or just letting them sit there because they are cracked..and they just cost to much to replace.and you can't trade them in on new ones,,..crack on the edge,cut and sand,i ain't quite figured out what to do with key-holes or cracks at the bell hole......Do Not Discard..It Still makes noise..lol..dave

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James Walker
Tiger Talk Pro


Reged: Mar 18 2002
Posts: 1108
Loc: Connecticut
Re: Modifying a cymbal [Re: DrumKnut]
      #42938 - Sun Jul 13 2008 02:26 AM (4.245.182.250)

I haven't done much in the way of modifying cymbals, beyond adding rivets to a couple of mine. I definitely haven't progressed to hammering or reshaping, much less lathing. (Maybe one of these days, but not at the moment.)

FWIW, here's a cymbal that was given to me as a "going away present" by the owner of the drum shop where I used to teach. It had been used as the crash cymbal on one of kits used for lessons in the shop, and had pretty much been worn out - there were numerous cracks, some of which I was able to drill to stop, but one section had so many cracks, I just cut out a huge section:



As you can guess, with all of that metal cut off, it doesn't really function all that well as a conventional crash cymbal. I've experimented with it a bit, however, and my best results have been:

1) Putting a couple of rivets in - I drilled four rivet holes, spaced evenly around the cymbal, and experimented with various rivet combinations, from one to four in number. I ended up leaving two in, in the holes on either side of the cutout. With the rivets, it's an interesting "effects crash" for softer music - the sustain of the rivets helps to replace the portion cymbals natural sustain that was lost when I cut that big chunk out of it.

2) I've gotten some excellent results with stacking - specifically, setting an 8" K Zildjian splash directly on top of this one, flush with the bell. It offers an interesting two-tone sort of variation on a ribbon crasher sound - one sound when I crash on the Sabian, and another (quicker, higher) sound when I crash on the 8" splash.

One thing I'm considering is cutting a few small holes in it, like the Sabian "O-zone" line. I haven't tried it yet (I want to save my hole saw for one or two more wood-related projects before I put it on a cymbal!), but from what I hear, "perforated" cymbals tend to be trashier-sounding after having the holes cut out of them.

In terms of hammering a flange into the cymbal, to make it more of a china cymbal, that's possible. Again, I haven't done it, and from what I hear from cymbalsmiths such as the late Johan Van de Sijpe, it has to be done with extreme care - that sort of reshaping puts a lot of stress on the metal.

The only other thing I'll add is the obvious: one's first attempts at reworking/modifying cymbals should only be done on expendable cymbals - something that won't break your heart if it becomes unusable in the process.

--------------------
moderator, mallet forum


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roger strange
Tiger Talk Pro


Reged: Dec 09 2003
Posts: 1119
Loc: Nova Scotia Canada
Re: Modifying a cymbal [Re: James Walker]
      #42942 - Sun Jul 13 2008 09:36 AM (24.89.250.98)

So here I am just before I load into the van for a week out on the road. Cymbals that are seemingly beyond life. I use them in combination as trash crash "blang" stuff. I never really throw away something that looks and sounds dead. With a little bit of creativeness in matching you can create percussive sounds that really work. If you have two snares you might try putting the second snare off the hi-hat and dropping a smaller seemingly wrecked cymbal on the snare and hitting that. You can get quite an industrial sound out of it. You can put a small cymbal loosely on top of a larger cymbal such as a 14 on an 18 and get a crasher effect. Almost dead cymbals sound great as mallet roll cymbals because they sound detuned and stop vibrating as soon as you stop hitting them. Once, years ago, I had a cymbal actually fall apart on me while playing. The cymbal body detached from the bell. When I hit the bell that was still on the stand I suddenly had a Latin/R&B bell chime on my hands, so I took the body, loaded it onto a stand held by a vice grips attached to the stand, and had an amazing crasher on my hands. Rivets work, they are cheap from Sabian and you get a hiss out of the cymbal. The more you put in the more complex and strident the hiss is. I use the Pro=Mark rattler chins a lot these days but the also make a lighter chain for softer work as well. Or, you can pop off down to the hardware store and get lengths of bath tub ball chains that do the same job. They are just a little harder to mount on a boom or stand than the Pro-Mark chains. I have done other things with ball-Peen hammers and propane torches but for me to tell you about that stuff you'll have to email me direct. The explanation would be too long for a thread.

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DrumKnut
Tiger Talk Trainee


Reged: Jul 09 2008
Posts: 11
Loc: BC, Canada
Re: Modifying a cymbal [Re: roger strange]
      #42947 - Sun Jul 13 2008 06:22 PM (204.174.81.148)

Hey, thanks for the suggestions, I'm going to have to think more on exactly what I want. The cymbal itself is expendable, and it's not something that will break my heart if it becomes unusable...however, it's not often that I have cymbals that I'm free to experiment, so I'm hoping this turns into something cool and usable.
I want to give the crash a sharper, brighter sound because at the moment it's...well, like I said before it has a muddy, blah sound to it. It sounds like a mix between hitting thin sheet metal with a hammer, and a nice crash, but without the niceness of the crash and without the thunder of the sheet metal...if that makes any sense. I'm seriously thinking about rivets, and I'm definitely interested in doing an O-zone sort of thing with them, but if someone else has already tried that I'd like to hear from them to see how it turned out before I take huge holes out of it.
I'll be looking into more options as well, but more comments would be greatly appreciated. Just throw ideas around, maybe something cool will come of it


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Alistair
Tiger Talk Pro


Reged: May 17 2006
Posts: 407
Loc: New Zealand
Re: Modifying a cymbal [Re: DrumKnut]
      #42982 - Wed Jul 16 2008 08:53 PM (222.153.168.82)

Keep us posted - I'd be interested to hear how it worked out.

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