|
|
|||||||
|
its been a wile sence anything was posted on the original thread, thought id try to bring it back. either every has been said or we forgot about it. but times are changing and so are some views. mine are pretty much the same, how bout you? |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
The Bush family, with the full cooperation of the GOP (read: grand ol' pimps, and btw, the dems are only about 1/2 better), have converted the most successful constitutional democracy in history into a fascist, police state. Here's an enlightening quote from the founder of fascism: "Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini Gee, doesn't that sound like exactly what's happening to America? It started with Ronald "the brain stem" Reagan's deregulation movement, and Daddy Bush picked up from there, and Clinton continued the tradition. Now the Chimp-in-Chief just has to consolidate what's left of the government and give it away to private contractors (in exchange for hefty kickbacks to the Bush family, or course), whose loyalty is to profits, not to America. The most pathetic thing of all are those who voted for, support, and trust the Chimp-in-Chief because they think he's a christian. These people are singularly the biggest suckers in human history. Go rent the movie "Rollerball." That's where the world is headed. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Well, what are we going to do about it. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
It's easy to say vote democrat so there's a chance the Jackanapes will be impeached and removed from office. But, there's a little problem with that - black box voting aka Diebold, the electronic, paperless voting machine maker who also counts the votes, whose CEO guaranteed a Bush victory in 2004. Further, assuming the votes were being counted accurately (as if), and dems gained a majority in congress, there are still enough corrupt dems in this congress who will combine with the almost universally corrupt GOPer's to defeat any articles of impeachment. It's not a pretty picture. It's going to take 20+ years to take our government back from big business. It may take violence, perhaps revolution, if it's going to happen. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
it's scary, but i think we should have our rights back. the goverment thinks we can be supressed with SUV's, plasma screen-tv's, and material **** like that. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
There are plenty of posts by democrats that do nothing but point out problems and trash talk republicans. Then I read more and found postings by republicans doing the exact same thing to the democrats. Of course this perspective does not generalize ALL democrats or ALL republicans It's like listening to a bunch of 4 year olds argue over who has the cooler lunch box. It would be really nice to see postings that facillitate arguments in a legitimate manner (not name calling and generalizing)rather than fallacious arguments. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Except for one problem, the Republicans just won't do that. In the past 20 years Republicans have raised trash talking and partisanship to unprecidented levels and there's no end in site. They own the main stream media and they've been trash talking 24/7/365 for 20 years now, and and it's been working for them, brainwashing the public into voting against their own best interest. In addition to that, the Republicans in power have raised corporate corruption to unprecidented levels. They have literally sold the U.S. government to giant corporations. No federal agency charged with regulating business and protecting the public is independent anymore. They are all headed and controlled by corporate shills and loyalists. When industry wants a new law, their lawyers write it and pay off republican lawmakers to pass it. The most heinous crime of the GOP, in it's crusade to privatize everything, has been to privatize the voting process. Now, our votes are collected and tabulated by private corporations (primarily Deibold who's CEO guaranteed a Bush victory) who paid republican lawmakers to buy their black box/no paper trail voting machines, and then pay them to count the votes for which there is no paper trail or other way to verify the accuracy of the tabulation. THIS IS THE BEGINNING OF THE END OF DEMOCRACY IN AMERICA. PLAIN AND SIMPLE. AND THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS 100% AT FAULT FOR IT. So, for you to pretend that both sides are somehow equally at falt is an utter misrepresentation. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
I'm pretending Ratamatatt - you have your perception and I have mine |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
That was supposed to say "I'm not pretending" |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
quote:how should i put this? oh! heres a way, those were the stupidest things iv ever heared. you whant to add in some da vinci code lies wile your at it? |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Brilliant, holden. How can I possibly argue with principled, well reasoned argument like that. I'll go out on a limb and guess you're another Bush worshipping born again christian! Oh, one more thing. There's no such word as "stupidest." And you might want to look up the word "wile" while your at it. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
very well done. i wouldnt say "worshiping," more like supporter |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Hey Holten - Diebold is true, documented and well under the rug....along with plenty of other documented episodes of ballots literally thrown away.....the election process as we knew it is gone! _________________________________________________ Right On! FunkyChild - welcome to The Clownification of America And so it has come to pass on our island, where the papers, radios and televisions no longer differentiate between news and entertainment. Where "American Idol" finals get page 1 treatment and genocide in Darfur is pushed deep inside the paper in the shadow of a 1/2-page Best Buy ad trumpeting a sale on iPod accessories....Stephen Pizzo We've turned into this nation of overfed clowns, riding around in clown cars, eating clown food, watching clown shows. We've become a nation of cringing, craven ****ups." --James Howard Kunstler _________________________________________________ For those looking for an arguement/analysis posted in a legitimate manner sans the name calling and generalizing (hey mlp187), this is an excellent but edited extract from Failed States by Noam Chomsky or Why it's Over for America ....enjoy! _________________________________________________ The selection of issues that should rank high on the agenda of concern for human welfare and rights is, naturally, a subjective matter. But there are a few choices that seem unavoidable, because they bear so directly on the prospects for decent survival. Among them are at least these three: nuclear war, environmental disaster, and the fact that the government of the world's leading power is acting in ways that increase the likelihood of these catastrophes. It is important to stress the government, because the population, not surprisingly, does not agree. That brings up a fourth issue that should deeply concern Americans, and the world: the sharp divide between public opinion and public policy, one of the reasons for the fear, which cannot casually be put aside, that, as Gar Alperowitz puts it in America Beyond Capitalism, "the American 'system' as a whole is in real trouble - that it is heading in a direction that spells the end of its historic values [of] equality, liberty, and meaningful democracy". The "system" is coming to have some of the features of failed states, to adopt a currently fashionable notion that is conventionally applied to states regarded as potential threats to our security (like Iraq) or as needing our intervention to rescue the population from severe internal threats (like Haiti). Though the concept is recognised to be, according to the journal Foreign Affairs, "frustratingly imprecise", some of the primary characteristics of failed states can be identified. One is their inability or unwillingness to protect their citizens from violence and perhaps even destruction. Another is their tendency to regard themselves as beyond the reach of domestic or international law, and hence free to carry out aggression and violence. And if they have democratic forms, they suffer from a serious "democratic deficit" that deprives their formal democratic institutions of real substance. Among the hardest tasks that anyone can undertake, and one of the most important, is to look honestly in the mirror. If we allow ourselves to do so, we should have little difficulty in finding the characteristics of "failed states" right at home. No one familiar with history should be surprised that the growing democratic deficit in the United States is accompanied by declaration of messianic missions to bring democracy to a suffering world. Declarations of noble intent by systems of power are rarely complete fabrication, and the same is true in this case. Under some conditions, forms of democracy are indeed acceptable. Abroad, as the leading scholar-advocate of "democracy promotion" concludes, we find a "strong line of continuity": democracy is acceptable if and only if it is consistent with strategic and economic interests (Thomas Carothers). In modified form, the doctrine holds at home as well. The basic dilemma facing policymakers is sometimes candidly recognised at the dovish liberal extreme of the spectrum, for example, by Robert Pastor, President Carter's national security adviser for Latin America. He explained why the administration had to support the murderous and corrupt Somoza regime in Nicaragua, and, when that proved impossible, to try at least to maintain the US-trained National Guard even as it was massacring the population "with a brutality a nation usually reserves for its enemy", killing some 40,000 people. The reason was the familiar one: "The United States did not want to control Nicaragua or the other nations of the region, but it also did not want developments to get out of control. It wanted Nicaraguans to act independently, except when doing so would affect US interests adversely." Similar dilemmas faced Bush administration planners after their invasion of Iraq. They want Iraqis "to act independently, except when doing so would affect US interests adversely". Iraq must therefore be sovereign and democratic, but within limits. It must somehow be constructed as an obedient client state, much in the manner of the traditional order in Central America. At a general level, the pattern is familiar, reaching to the opposite extreme of institutional structures. The Kremlin was able to maintain satellites that were run by domestic political and military forces, with the iron fist poised. Germany was able to do much the same in occupied Europe even while it was at war, as did fascist Japan in Man-churia (its Manchukuo). Fascist Italy achieved similar results in North Africa while carrying out virtual genocide that in no way harmed its favourable image in the West and possibly inspired Hitler. Traditional imperial and neocolonial systems illustrate many variations on similar themes. To achieve the traditional goals in Iraq has proven to be surprisingly difficult, despite unusually favourable circumstances. The dilemma of combining a measure of independence with firm control arose in a stark form not long after the invasion, as mass non-violent resistance compelled the invaders to accept far more Iraqi initiative than they had anticipated. The outcome even evoked the nightmarish prospect of a more or less democratic and sovereign Iraq taking its place in a loose Shiite alliance comprising Iran, Shiite Iraq, and possibly the nearby Shiite-dominated regions of Saudi Arabia, controlling most of the world's oil and independent of Washington. The situation could get worse. Iran might give up on hopes that Europe could become independent of the United States, and turn eastward. Highly relevant background is discussed by Selig Harrison, a leading specialist on these topics. "The nuclear negotiations between Iran and the European Union were based on a bargain that the EU, held back by the US, has failed to honour," Harrison observes. "The bargain was that Iran would suspend uranium enrichment, and the EU would undertake security guarantees. The language of the joint declaration was "unambiguous. 'A mutually acceptable agreement,' it said, would not only provide 'objective guarantees' that Iran's nuclear programme is 'exclusively for peaceful purposes' but would 'equally provide firm commitments on security issues.'" The phrase "security issues" is a thinly veiled reference to the threats by the United States and Israel to bomb Iran, and preparations to do so. The model regularly adduced is Israel's bombing of Iraq's Osirak reactor in 1981, which appears to have initiated Saddam's nuclear weapons programs, another demonstration that violence tends to elicit violence. Any attempt to execute similar plans against Iran could lead to immediate violence, as is surely understood in Washington. During a visit to Tehran, the influential Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr warned that his militia would defend Iran in the case of any attack, "one of the strongest signs yet", the Washington Post reported, "that Iraq could become a battleground in any Western conflict with Iran, raising the spectre of Iraqi Shiite militias - or perhaps even the US-trained Shiite-dominated military - taking on American troops here in sympathy with Iran." The Sadrist bloc, which registered substantial gains in the December 2005 elections, may soon become the most powerful single political force in Iraq. It is consciously pursuing the model of other successful Islamist groups, such as Hamas in Palestine, combining strong resistance to military occupation with grassroots social organising and service to the poor. Washington's unwillingness to allow regional security issues to be considered is nothing new. It has also arisen repeatedly in the confrontation with Iraq. In the background is the matter of Israeli nuclear weapons, a topic that Washington bars from international consideration. Beyond that lurks what Harrison rightly describes as "the central problem facing the global non-proliferation regime": the failure of the nuclear states to live up to their nuclear Non Proliferation Treaty (NPT) obligation "to phase out their own nuclear weapons" - and, in Washington's case, formal rejection of the obligation. Unlike Europe, China refuses to be intimidated by Washington, a primary reason for the growing fear of China on the part of US planners. Much of Iran's oil already goes to China, and China is providing Iran with weapons, presumably considered a deterrent to US threats. Still more uncomfortable for Washington is the fact that, according to the Financial Times, "the Sino-Saudi relationship has developed dramatically", including Chinese military aid to Saudi Arabia and gas exploration rights for China. By 2005, Saudi Arabia provided about 17 per cent of China's oil imports. Chinese and Saudi oil companies have signed deals for drilling and construction of a huge refinery (with Exxon Mobil as a partner). A January 2006 visit by Saudi king Abdullah to Beijing was expected to lead to a Sino-Saudi memorandum of understanding calling for "increased cooperation and investment between the two countries in oil, natural gas, and minerals". Indian analyst Aijaz Ahmad observes that Iran could "emerge as the virtual linchpin in the making, over the next decade or so, of what China and Russia have come to regard as an absolutely indispensable Asian Energy Security Grid, for breaking Western control of the world's energy supplies and securing the great industrial revolution of Asia". South Korea and southeast Asian countries are likely to join, possibly Japan as well. A crucial question is how India will react. It rejected US pressures to withdraw from an oil pipeline deal with Iran. On the other hand, India joined the United States and the EU in voting for an anti-Iranian resolution at the IAEA, joining also in their hypocrisy, since India rejects the NPT regime to which Iran, so far, appears to be largely conforming. Ahmad reports that India may have secretly reversed its stand under Iranian threats to terminate a $20bn gas deal. Washington later warned India that its "nuclear deal with the US could be ditched" if India did not go along with US demands, eliciting a sharp rejoinder from the Indian foreign ministry and an evasive tempering of the warning by the US embassy. The prospect that Europe and Asia might move toward greater independence has seriously troubled US planners since World War II, and concerns have significantly increased as the tripolar order has continued to evolve, along with new south-south interactions and rapidly growing EU engagement with China. US intelligence has projected that the United States, while controlling Middle East oil for the traditional reasons, will itself rely mainly on more stable Atlantic Basin resources (West Africa, western hemisphere). Control of Middle East oil is now far from a sure thing, and these expectations are also threatened by developments in the western hemisphere, accelerated by Bush administration policies that have left the United States remarkably isolated in the global arena. The Bush administration has even succeeded in alienating Canada, an impressive feat. Canada's minister of natural resources said that within a few years one quarter of the oil that Canada now sends to the United States may go to China instead. In a further blow to Washington's energy policies, the leading oil exporter in the hemisphere, Venezuela, has forged probably the closest relations with China of any Latin American country, and is planning to sell increasing amounts of oil to China as part of its effort to reduce dependence on the openly hostile US government. Latin America as a whole is increasing trade and other relations with China, with some setbacks, but likely expansion, in particular for raw materials exporters like Brazil and Chile. Meanwhile, Cuba-Venezuela relations are becoming very close, each relying on its comparative advantage. Venezuela is providing low-cost oil while in return Cuba organises literacy and health programs, sending thousands of highly skilled professionals, teachers, and doctors, who work in the poorest and most neglected areas, as they do elsewhere in the Third World. Cuba-Venezuela projects are extending to the Caribbean countries, where Cuban doctors are providing healthcare to thousands of people with Venezuelan funding. Operation Miracle, as it is called, is described by Jamaica's ambassador to Cuba as "an example of integration and south-south cooperation", and is generating great enthusiasm among the poor majority. Cuban medical assistance is also being welcomed elsewhere. One of the most horrendous tragedies of recent years was the October 2005 earthquake in Pakistan. In addition to the huge toll, unknown numbers of survivors have to face brutal winter weather with little shelter, food, or medical assistance. One has to turn to the South Asian press to read that "Cuba has provided the largest contingent of doctors and paramedics to Pakistan", paying all the costs (perhaps with Venezuelan funding), and that President Musharraf expressed his "deep gratitude" for the "spirit and compassion" of the Cuban medical teams. Some analysts have suggested that Cuba and Venezuela might even unite, a step towards further integration of Latin America in a bloc that is more independent from the United States. Venezuela has joined Mercosur, the South American customs union, a move described by Argentine president Nestor Kirchner as "a milestone" in the development of this trading bloc, and welcomed as opening "a new chapter in our integration" by Brazilian president Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva. Independent experts say that "adding Venezuela to the bloc furthers its geopolitical vision of eventually spreading Mercosur to the rest of the region". At a meeting to mark Venezuela's entry into Mercosur, Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez said, "We cannot allow this to be purely an economic project, one for the elites and for the transnational companies," a not very oblique reference to the US-sponsored "Free Trade Agreement for the Americas", which has aroused strong public opposition. Venezuela also supplied Argentina with fuel oil to help stave off an energy crisis, and bought almost a third of Argentine debt issued in 2005, one element of a region-wide effort to free the countries from the control of the US-dominated IMF after two decades of disastrous effects of conformity to its rules. The IMF has "acted towards our country as a promoter and a vehicle of policies that caused poverty and pain among the Argentine people", President Kirchner said in announcing his decision to pay almost $1 trillion to rid itself of the IMF forever. Radically violating IMF rules, Argentina enjoyed a substantial recovery from the disaster left by IMF policies. Steps toward independent regional integration advanced further with the election of Evo Morales in Bolivia in December 2005, the first president from the indigenous majority. Morales moved quickly to reach energy accords with Venezuela. Though Central America was largely disciplined by Reaganite violence and terror, the rest of the hemisphere is falling out of control, particularly from Venezuela to Argentina, which was the poster child of the IMF and the Treasury Department until its economy collapsed under the policies they imposed. Much of the region has left-centre governments. The indigenous populations have become much more active and influential, particularly in Bolivia and Ecuador, both major energy producers, where they either want oil and gas to be domestically controlled or, in some cases, oppose production altogether. Many indigenous people apparently do not see any reason why their lives, societies, and cultures should be disrupted or destroyed so that New Yorkers can sit in SUVs in traffic gridlock. Some are even calling for an "Indian nation" in South America. Meanwhile the economic integration that is under way is reversing patterns that trace back to the Spanish conquests, with Latin American elites and economies linked to the imperial powers but not to one another. Along with growing south-south interaction on a broader scale, these developments are strongly influenced by popular organisations that are coming together in the unprecedented international global justice movements, ludicrously called "anti-globalisation" because they favour globalisation that privileges the interests of people, not investors and financial institutions. For many reasons, the system of US global dominance is fragile, even apart from the damage inflicted by Bush planners. One consequence is that the Bush administration's pursuit of the traditional policies of deterring democracy faces new obstacles. It is no longer as easy as before to resort to military coups and international terrorism to overthrow democratically elected governments, as Bush planners learnt ruefully in 2002 in Venezuela. The "strong line of continuity" must be pursued in other ways, for the most part. In Iraq, as we have seen, mass nonviolent resistance compelled Washington and London to permit the elections they had sought to evade. The subsequent effort to subvert the elections by providing substantial advantages to the administration's favourite candidate, and expelling the independent media, also failed. Washington faces further problems. The Iraqi labor movement is making considerable progress despite the opposition of the occupation authorities. The situation is rather like Europe and Japan after World War II, when a primary goal of the United States and United Kingdom was to undermine independent labour movements - as at home, for similar reasons: organised labour contributes in essential ways to functioning democracy with popular engagement. Many of the measures adopted at that time - withholding food, supporting fascist police - are no longer available. Nor is it possible today to rely on the labour bureaucracy of the American Institute for Free Labor Development to help undermine unions. Today, some American unions are supporting Iraqi workers, just as they do in Colombia, where more union activists are murdered than anywhere in the world. At least the unions now receive support from the United Steelworkers of America and others, while Washington continues to provide enormous funding for the government, which bears a large part of the responsibility. The problem of elections arose in Palestine much in the way it did in Iraq. As already discussed, the Bush administration refused to permit elections until the death of Yasser Arafat, aware that the wrong man would win. After his death, the administration agreed to permit elections, expecting the victory of its favoured Palestinian Authority candidates. To promote this outcome, Washington resorted to much the same modes of subversion as in Iraq, and often before. Washington used the US Agency for International Development as an "invisible conduit" in an effort to "increase the popularity of the Palestinian Authority on the eve of crucial elections in which the governing party faces a serious challenge from the radical Islamic group Hamas" (Washington Post), spending almost $2m "on dozens of quick projects before elections this week to bolster the governing Fatah faction's image with voters" (New York Times). In the United States, or any Western country, even a hint of such foreign interference would destroy a candidate, but deeply rooted imperial mentality legitimates such routine measures elsewhere. However, the attempt to subvert the elections again resoundingly failed. The US and Israeli governments now have to adjust to dealing somehow with a radical Islamic party that approaches their traditional rejectionist stance, though not entirely, at least if Hamas really does mean to agree to an indefinite truce on the international border as its leaders state. The US and Israel, in contrast, insist that Israel must take over substantial parts of the West Bank (and the forgotten Golan Heights). Hamas's refusal to accept Israel's "right to exist" mirrors the refusal of Washington and Jerusalem to accept Palestine's "right to exist" - a concept unknown in international affairs; Mexico accepts the existence of the United States but not its abstract "right to exist" on almost half of Mexico, acquired by conquest. Hamas's formal commitment to "destroy Israel" places it on a par with the United States and Israel, which vowed formally that there could be no "additional Palestinian state" (in addition to Jordan) until they relaxed their extreme rejectionist stand partially in the past few years, in the manner already reviewed. Although Hamas has not said so, it would come as no great surprise if Hamas were to agree that Jews may remain in scattered areas in the present Israel, while Palestine constructs huge settlement and infrastructure projects to take over the valuable land and resources, effectively breaking Israel up into unviable cantons, virtually separated from one another and from some small part of Jerusalem where Jews would also be allowed to remain. And they might agree to call the fragments "a state". If such proposals were made, we would - rightly - regard them as virtually a reversion to Nazism, a fact that might elicit some thoughts. If such proposals were made, Hamas's position would be essentially like that of the United States and Israel for the past five years, after they came to tolerate some impoverished form of "statehood". It is fair to describe Hamas as radical, extremist, and violent, and as a serious threat to peace and a just political settlement. But the organisation is hardly alone in this stance. Elsewhere traditional means of undermining democracy have succeeded. In Haiti, the Bush administration's favourite "democracy-building group, the International Republican Institute", worked assiduously to promote the opposition to President Aristide, helped by the withholding of desperately needed aid on grounds that were dubious at best. When it seemed that Aristide would probably win any genuine election, Washington and the opposition chose to withdraw, a standard device to discredit elections that are going to come out the wrong way: Nicaragua in 1984 and Venezuela in December 2005 are examples that should be familiar. Then followed a military coup, expulsion of the president, and a reign of terror and violence vastly exceeding anything under the elected government. The persistence of the strong line of continuity to the present again reveals that the United States is very much like other powerful states. It pursues the strategic and economic interests of dominant sectors of the domestic population, to the accompaniment of rhetorical flourishes about its dedication to the highest values. That is practically a historical universal, and the reason why sensible people pay scant attention to declarations of noble intent by leaders, or accolades by their followers. One commonly hears that carping critics complain about what is wrong, but do not present solutions. There is an accurate translation for that charge: "They present solutions, but I don't like them." In addition to the proposals that should be familiar about dealing with the crises that reach to the level of survival, a few simple suggestions for the United States have already been mentioned: 1) accept the jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court and the World Court; 2) sign and carry forward the Kyoto protocols; 3) let the UN take the lead in international crises; 4) rely on diplomatic and economic measures rather than military ones in confronting terror; 5) keep to the traditional interpretation of the UN Charter; 6) give up the Security Council veto and have "a decent respect for the opinion of mankind," as the Declaration of Independence advises, even if power centres disagree; 7) cut back sharply on military spending and sharply increase social spending. For people who believe in democracy, these are very conservative suggestions: they appear to be the opinions of the majority of the US population, in most cases the overwhelming majority. They are in radical opposition to public policy. To be sure, we cannot be very confident about the state of public opinion on such matters because of another feature of the democratic deficit: the topics scarcely enter into public discussion and the basic facts are little known. In a highly atomised society, the public is therefore largely deprived of the opportunity to form considered opinions. Another conservative suggestion is that facts, logic, and elementary moral principles should matter. Those who take the trouble to adhere to that suggestion will soon be led to abandon a good part of familiar doctrine, though it is surely much easier to repeat self-serving mantras. Such simple truths carry us some distance toward developing more specific and detailed answers. More important, they open the way to implement them, opportun- ities that are readily within our grasp if we can free ourselves from the shackles of doctrine and imposed illusion. Though it is natural for doctrinal systems to seek to induce pessimism, hopelessness, and despair, reality is different. There has been substantial progress in the unending quest for justice and freedom in recent years, leaving a legacy that can be carried forward from a higher plane than before. Opportunities for education and organising abound. As in the past, rights are not likely to be granted by benevolent authorities, or won by intermittent actions - attending a few demonstrations or pushing a lever in the personalised quadrennial extravaganzas that are depicted as "democratic politics". As always in the past, the tasks require dedicated day-by-day engagement to create - in part recreate - the basis for a functioning democratic culture in which the public plays some role in determining policies, not only in the political arena, from which it is largely excluded, but also in the crucial economic arena, from which it is excluded in principle. There are many ways to promote democracy at home, carrying it to new dimensions. Opportunities are ample, and failure to grasp them is likely to have ominous repercussions: for the country, for the world, and for future generations. ----------------------------------------------- makes sense 2 me...peace |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
That is a beautifully written excerpt, thank you for posting it Mike4. I'm inspired to read the book and learn about the author. And for the record, I'm a registered Independent who just wants us to have our country back. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
quote:And your spelling looks like the product of school vouchers. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
quote:For a little more detail on how republicans engaged in voter fraud in 2000, 2004 and how they plan to do it in 2006 and 2008. And you thought we lived in a Democracy? How They Stole Ohio And the GOP 4-step Recipe to 'Blackwell' the USA in 2008 Abracadabra: Three million votes vanish A Buzzflash Exclusive June 1, 2006 By Greg Palast [Sorry if you're receiving this email a second time; we're in the process of some massive tech upgrading and apologize for any inconvenience!] [Heads up! Catch Robert Kennedy Jr., Mike Papantonio and Greg Palast this Saturday on Air America's 'Ring of Fire' on the shoplifting of the last election … and the next one.] This is a fact: On November 2, 2004, in the State of Ohio, 239,127 votes for President of the United States were dumped, rejected, blocked, lost and left to rot uncounted. And not just anyone's vote. Dive into the electoral dumpster and these "spoiled" votes have a very dark color indeed. In another life, I taught statistics. And these statistics stank: the raw data tells us that if you are a Black voter, the chance of you losing your vote to technical errors in voting machinery is 900% higher than if you were a white voter. Any guesses as to whom those African-Americans chose for president on those junked ballots? Check Ohio's racial demographics, do the numbers, and there it is: Kerry won Ohio. And that, too, is a fact. A fact that could not get reported in the USA. But the shoplifting of those votes in Ohio was just the tip of the theft-berg. November 2, 2004 was a national ballot-box bonfire. In total, over three million votes (3,600,380 to be exact) were cast -- marked, punched, pulled -- YET NEVER COUNTED. I'm not talking about the Ukraine or Uganda. I'm talking about the United States of America "with liberty and justice for all." Well, not "all." The nine-to-one Black-to-White ballot spoilage rate is a national statistic -- not just an Ohio trick. Last year, I flew to New Mexico to investigate the 33,981 cast but not counted ballots of that state in the 2004 race. George Bush "won" New Mexico by 5,988 votes. Or did he? I calculated that, of the all the ballots rejected and "spoiled," 89% were cast by voters of color. Who won New Mexico? Kerry won -- or he would have, if they had counted the ballots. But they didn't count them. And that was deliberate. It's in the plan. It's the program. And the program for 2008 is simple. Two million ballots were cast but not counted in the 2000 race. (Over half, 54%, were cast by African-American.) In 2004, the GOP kicked it up to THREE million. Get ready, these guys aim high: "four in '06" and "five in '08" looks to be their game plan. How will they pile up five million un-voters in 2008? Let's start with the three million "disappeared" of 2004: Step 1: "Spoiling" ballots -- 1,389,231 of them. In the vote-count game, these are called "undervotes" and "overvotes." You can recognize these lost ballots by their hanging chads, punch cards without punches (an Ohio specialty), paper ballots eaten by scanners, and touch screens that didn't know you touched them. Step 2: Rejecting "provisional ballots"-- 1,090,729 in this pile. Voters finding themselves at the "wrong" precinct, or wrongly "scrubbed" from voter rolls get these back-of-the-bus ballots first inaugurated in 2002. In '04, provisional ballots were passed out like candy to voters in the poorest precincts. They handed them out -- then threw them away -- one million dumped in all. In Ohio, Republican Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell changed state rules, allowing him to toss out the ballots of legal voters who cast ballots in the wrong precinct although these citizens were told their vote would count after confirming their registration. Step 3: Not counting absentee ballots -- 526,420 of them. At least, that's what we figure from official stats. But it's anyone's guess how many mailed-in votes were dumped. (However, in one case, in Palm Beach, Florida, Jeb Bush's candidate for Elections Supervisor, Theresa LaPore, counted more absentee votes than absentee ballots mailed in. Not the brightest bulb in the vote-fix biz, that Theresa.) Step 4: Scrub'm, Purge'm, Block'm. These are the voters who never got to vote at all. This group includes those who found their registrations were never entered on the voter rolls. In Ohio, about one-fourth of those registered by Jesse Jackson's 2004 voter drive, found their registrations delayed beyond the election date or lost. Add to this un-voter group, those who were wrongly "scrubbed" from registries as "felons." For example, there was Bernice Kines, purged in Florida in 2004 because she was convicted of a felony on July 31, 2009. I repeat: 2009. There was something especially odd about the Ohio felon purge: ex-cons are ALLOWED to vote in that state, Mr. Blackwell. How many lost their chance to vote by scrubbing, purging and blocking? That's anyone's guess, but one million would not be an unfair estimate -- and that's not included in the 3.6 million tally of ballots uncounted. Was it deliberate? Oh my God, yes. I'd like you to take a look at the "caging" lists the Republican National Committee concocted to challenge voters with "suspect" addresses. It included page after page of African-American soldiers, like one Randall Prausa, shipped overseas. Mission accomplished, Mr. President? And there's some new tricks for these old dogs. For the 2006 and 2008, the GOP is pushing new Voter ID requirements. Your signature won't be good enough anymore. What's wrong with the new ID laws? This: in the 2004 election, 300,000 voters were turned away from the polls for "wrong" ID. For example, in the "Little Texas" counties in New Mexico, if your voter registration included a middle initial but your driver's license had none, you were kicked out of the polling station. Funny, but they only seemed to ask Hispanic voters. We should see the number of voters rejected for ID to quintuple by 2008 based on the new "voting reform" laws recently passed in several states. Also, coming to a polling station near you: more caging lists, scrub lists, ID challenge lists and more. Exactly why do you think they are compiling those "War on Terror" and War on Immigration databases? Behind the 2000 felon purge lists and behind the 2004 caging lists were databases from the same companies that now have those homeland security contracts. Are they saving us from Osama -- or from Democrats? I wish I could give you a book on a page, because information is our weapon: Turn on the lights and the cockroaches scatter. That's why I'm asking you to read RFK's article on the Theft of Ohio -- and GET ANGRY. Then read, "Armed Madhouse: … The Scheme to Steal '08' -- AND GET READY. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Video about the Chimp-in-Chief: http://streaming.americanprogress.org/ThinkProgress/2005/smears_lies_videotape_medium.320.240.mov.html |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
It's funny looking in on Americans arguing about their country - most of the kids in my history class can see that Bush is an idiot and Iraq is turning into another Vietnam. Why are the 2 main parties called Democrats and Republican - there is some truly daft terminology there! Surely all Americans advocate democracy, living in one? Surely America is a republic? America needs to look out at the rest of the world and stop navel-gazing if it is to truly become a 'great' power. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
America is a false democracy! It is a republic, and our putative representatives are pimps for the corporate whores who have taken over the government. Under republican rule, the government and everything it owns, which was paid for by taxpayers, is for sale to the highest private bidder - not the one who pays the most for the property, the one who contributes the most kickbacks to the representative pimps who sell it to them. BTW, isn't Bush one of those banjo playing savants? Da da ding, ding, ding, ding, ding . . . ding . . . dinnnnnnng! |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Bush is in the big businesses' pockets: "squeal like a pig, boy!" |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
hey, wheres GoLoco on this? |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
He went loco! Now he can better relate to Bush and Ann Coulter. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
I got yer bush right here rat |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
I made a statement that started this first post just because I was sick of the way I see this country being taken over and given away by people that don’t have the right to do that. Maybe most of those people are people that we elected into office and gave them that right. Most of those people got elected by campaigning on false pretenses. Too much Mud Slinging goes on in politics today in our country and politicians think that if they make everyone else look bad then they have to look good. You know what’s sad? It works. They get elected then we find out how rotten and crooked they are. If I could fix it, believe me I would but I don’t know how. If a politician isn’t crooked when he gets elected, I bet he will be before long and long before he gets re-elected. If I were elected I’d be crooked too most likely. But I’ll be Damned if I would take money and food out of American’s homes to give it to foreigners and illegal aliens just to look good for the bleeding heart liberals that would get me elected again. I’ve said this before and say it again, “If I walk into a store and ask the proprietor to sell me a loaf of bread, No Law in the country says that he Has to sell it to me. Matter of fact he can refuse. Matter of Fact he can tell me, “I’m not selling you Any bread because you are White.” You won’t see that on the TV News or read it in the paper. If a Green or any other color race or religion walks into the store for the same thing, Our Federal Law says He Has To Get His Bread! I’m involved with Union Construction which always preaches the Democrat Vote. I don’t always vote that way. To satisfy the Rat, I have never voted for anyone named Bush. I also think the party system should be abolished and people should be elected on their own actions. It could be the best idea in the world but because a Democrat presented it, the Republicans vote against it, or the other way around. Don't copy and paste this please, it's already been read. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
My father used to tell me that you can't always stop someone from doing something to you once, but you can keep them from making it a habit. Matter of Fact, yes, that store proprietor can tell you, “I’m not selling you Any bread because you are White.” and he can also tell me, “I’m not selling you Any bread because you are Black.” But the laws, initially setup to protect the groups that were actually experiencing descrimination, apply to everyone. What you do with those laws afterward will affect that merchant's bottom line and make sure you get your bread in the future. And yes, reverse descrimination DOES show up in the News and TV. (See the bottom article for a recent example - October 5th news feed) Excerpted from http://public.findlaw.com/civil-rights/r...n-overview.html Discrimination in Public Accommodations What is a Public Accommodation? Federal and state laws prohibit discrimination against certain protected groups in businesses and places that are considered "public accommodations." The definition of a "public accommodation" may vary depending upon the law at issue (i.e. federal or state), and the type of discrimination involved (i.e. race discrimination or disability discrimination). Generally speaking, it may help to think of public accommodations as most (but not all) businesses or buildings that are open to (or offer services to) the general public. More specifically, the definition of a "public accommodation" can be broken down into two types of businesses / facilities: Government-owned/operated facilities, services, and buildings Privately-owned/operated businesses, services, and buildings Privately-owned/operated businesses and buildings. Privately-owned businesses and facilities that offer certain goods or services to the public -- including food, lodging, gasoline, and entertainment -- are considered public accommodations for purposes of federal and state anti-discrimination laws. For purposes of disability discrimination, the definition of a "public accommodation" is even more broad, encompassing most businesses that are open to the public (regardless of type). Laws Prohibiting Discrimination in Public Accommodations: Race, Color, Religion, and National Origin Federal law prohibits public accommodations from discriminating on the basis of race, color, religion, or national origin. If you think that you have been discriminated against in using such a facility, you may file a complaint with the Civil Rights Division of the Department of Justice, or with the United States attorney in your area. You may also file suit in the U.S. district court. Example article..... From the New York Times MACON, Miss., Oct. 5 — The Justice Department has chosen this no-stoplight, courthouse town buried in the eastern Mississippi prairie for an unusual civil rights test: the first federal lawsuit under the Voting Rights Act accusing blacks of suppressing the rights of whites. The action represents a sharp shift, and it has raised eyebrows outside the state. The government is charging blacks with voting fraud in a state whose violent rejection of blacks’ right to vote, over generations, helped give birth to the Voting Rights Act of 1965. Yet within Mississippi the case has provoked knowing nods rather than cries of outrage, even among liberal Democrats. The Justice Department’s main focus is Ike Brown, a local power broker whose imaginative electoral tactics have for 20 years caused whisperings from here to the state capital in Jackson, 100 miles to the southwest. Mr. Brown, tall, thin, a twice-convicted felon, the chairman of the Noxubee County Democratic Executive Committee and its undisputed political boss, is accused by the federal government of orchestrating — with the help of others — “relentless voting-related racial discrimination” against whites, whom blacks outnumber by more than 3 to 1 in the county. His goal, according to the government: keeping black politicians — ones supported by Mr. Brown, that is — in office. To do that, the department says, he and his allies devised a watertight system for controlling the all-determining Democratic primary, much as segregationists did decades ago. Mr. Brown is accused in the lawsuit and in supporting documents of paying and organizing notaries, some of whom illegally marked absentee ballots or influenced how the ballots were voted; of publishing a list of voters, all white, accompanied by a warning that they would be challenged at the polls; of importing black voters into the county; and of altering racial percentages in districts by manipulating the registration rolls. To run against the county prosecutor — one of two white officeholders in Noxubee — Mr. Brown brought in a black lawyer from outside the county, according to the supporting documents, who never even bothered to turn on the gas or electricity at his rented apartment. That candidate was disqualified. Whites, who make up just under 30 percent of the population here, are circumspect when discussing Mr. Brown, though he remains a hero to many blacks. When he drove off to federal prison to serve a sentence for tax fraud in 1995, he received a grand farewell from his political supporters and friends, including local elected officials; whites, on the other hand, for years have seen him as a kind of occult force in determining the affairs of the county. Still, many whites said privately they welcomed the Justice Department’s lawsuit, which is scheduled for trial early next year. “In my opinion, it puts the focus on fair play,” said Roderick Walker, the county prosecutor Mr. Brown tried to oust, in 2003. “They were doing something wrong.” Up and down South Jefferson Street, though, in the old brick commercial district, the white merchants refused to be quoted, for fear of alienating black customers. “There’s a lot of voting irregularities, but that’s all I’m going to say,” one woman said, ending the conversation abruptly. The Justice Department’s voting rights expert is less reserved. “Virtually every election provides a multitude of examples of these illegal activities organized by Ike Brown and other defendants, and those who act in concert with them,” the expert, Theodore S. Arrington, chairman of the political science department at the University of North Carolina at Charlotte, wrote in a report filed with the court. Mr. Brown is coolly dismissive of the case against him. He has no office at the white-columned Noxubee County Courthouse, but that is where he casually greets visitors, in a chair near the entrance. A loquacious man, he both minimizes his own role and portrays himself as a central target. Far from being the vital orchestrator portrayed by the government, “when I was in Maxwell prison in ’95 and ’96, the show went right on,” he said. There are so few whites in the county, Mr. Brown suggests, that the tactics he is accused of are unnecessary to keep blacks in office. “They can’t win anyway unless we choose to vote for them,” he said with a smile. “If I was doing something wrong — that’s like closing the barn door when the horse is already gone.” He sees the lawsuit against him as merely the embittered reaction of whites who feel disenfranchised, and he scoffs at a consent decree signed last year in which county officials agreed not to harass or intimidate white candidates or voters, manipulate absentee ballots, or let poll workers coach voters, among other things. “I wouldn’t sign my name,” Mr. Brown said. But the Justice Department is pressing ahead with its suit, and wants to force Mr. Brown to agree to the same cease-and-desist conditions as his fellow county officials. The state’s Democratic establishment has hardly rallied around Mr. Brown; privately some Democrats here express disdain for his tactics. Instead, he is being defended by a maverick Republican lawyer who sees the suit as an example of undue interference in the affairs of a political party. “To do what they want to do, they would virtually have to take over the Democratic Party,” said the lawyer, Wilbur Colom, adding that Mr. Brown’s notoriety had made him the focus of the investigation. “I believe they were under so much pressure because of Ike’s very sophisticated election operation. He is a Karl Rove genius on the Noxubee County level.” In Jackson, though, a leading light in Mr. Brown’s own party, Mississippi Secretary of State Eric Clark, a longtime moderate in state politics, refused to endorse him. “Anybody who tries to prevent people from voting is breaking the law,” Mr. Clark said. “I certainly suspect some of that has been going on.” Back in Macon, in the shadow of the courthouse green’s standard-issue Confederate monument, Mr. Brown spoke of history: “They had their way all the time. They no longer have their way. That’s what it’s all about.” The case is “all about politics,” he said, “all about them trying to keep me from picking the lock.” But Mr. Walker, the county prosecutor, insisted the past had nothing to do with the case against Mr. Brown. “I wouldn’t sit here and pretend black people haven’t been mistreated,” he said. “I hate what happened in the past. But I can’t do anything about it.” |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
It seems that Mike4 is a very well educated fellow and being an analyst, I think that a prerequisite. Yes the proprietor of the store can tell you he won’t sell you the bread because you are black, but it is against the Code of Federal Regulations and he can be imprisoned for it. If he says “Because you’re white” there is no law against that on Federal record. Just because the cases you point out made the statements you quote, bears no legal impact. You can say anything in court. It may be stricken form the record but you still said it and folks still heard it. You know it’s funny but there is only 2 words you can not use in public to call someone and it’s only against regulations if that term applies to them. I do appreciate your input Mike4. That’s why this is a discussion, a display of knowledge and a chance to opine. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Although I do appreciate the kind words, I’m just a product of great parents & family, Michigan public schools and a couple of years of college, the military and blessed with a lot of life & reading mixed in. Analyst is merely a job title and an outdated one at that (I’ve been promoted twice since then) and the reason for my input is not to simply display knowledge for knowledge’s sake but to clarify just a couple of your over generalized (and what I believe to be) erroneous statements about both yours AND my civil rights in the US. In my 9-to-5, the first thing I do daily, is to peruse the FR AKA Federal Register for items of interest to my organization. This info is published daily at the Govt Printing Office (GPO) website. It just so happens that it is also where the CFR (Code of Federal Regulations) is published. (here’s the link if you wish to check ). If I should be on the Dept of Justice site please let me know (as most of the GPO published regs refer to entities receiving fed funds). http://www.gpoaccess.gov/cfr/index.html I’ve searched the site and all of the CFR regulations that I found so far begins with or contains the words “no person” (as in no person shall be discriminated based on….) Not “no Black person” or “no Green person” or “no person of this particular group, list, etc”. Just the 2 words, “no person”. I can’t interpret that to mean anything but no person…..now theses regs do refer to entities receiving fed funds and not necessarily private business so please feel free to steer me to the appropriate site where these Federal laws that discriminate against you, exist. I’m not entirely clear by what your middle sentence meant and I’m no lawyer but I’d bet good money that your analysis of my legal impact is incorrect and I’m pretty sure that saying anything in court that is not true is considered perjury. From my admittedly limited understanding perjury (if it is even known to be so at the time), is not usually stricken from the record, striking statements from the court record is usually reserved for unqualified opinions, hearsay, inflammatory statements, etc (but remember, I’m no lawyer and since this whole paragraph is speculation, it should probably be stricken;-) You also stated that no examples of reverse discrimination could be found in the news. The recently published NY Times article I submitted, refutes that. And I am sad to say, I didn’t have to search long for it. If you can please provide examples or links to the laws that you speak of that uphold these injustices to YOUR rights, I would be most interested in reading them, apologizing to you and maybe even send an email to a PAC like move.org to get the ball rolling on reestablishing YOUR rights as a US citizen getting your bread (so to speak). And if you can also point me to the law about the 2 Words you spoke of, I’d really like to read that! Until then, the only 2 Words that really matter 2 me are, “no person”……. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Oh as in “no person shall be discriminated against because of race....., sexual preference......, religion.....? Webster saying “the act of discriminating, the process by which two stimuli differing in some aspect are responded to differently.” Of course it goes on about ‘reverse discrimination’ also. You think it possible to organize a White History Month? A White Folks College Fund? Would Six Flags allow us to celebrate Straight Day? Could we sue NBC for not having enough white people on a TV show? Could there be a White Entertainment Network on cable? If a construction BTW, congratulations on your promotions, in all sproject is funded by government money all contracts state that “the workforce must be comprised of at least 16.9% minorities, half of which must be women.” “Labor or materials which are provided by sub-contract must have at least 20% minorities participation.” Therefore it is legal to have a workforce of 100% ‘purple’ women. I know that most contracts of any kind funded by government money have similar stipulations. Nothing guarantees a job to a white man (other than somebody has to work.) And congratulations on your promotions, seriously. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Webster also defines “white as the absence of color” but like your example of Webster’s definition of discrimination, neither definition applies to the present discussion of your perceived lack of civil rights and the laws that you claim to restrict and discriminate against you. In the eyes of the law, white is a color too…. And again, you focus your argument on the lack of labeled holiday’s, causes, and funds for White people while you overlook the simple mathematics and deductions that are as follows. For example, if you take away the months that focus on a particular minorities history (say, Black, Asian, Hispanic, etc) at most how many are we talking? Say 6? That leaves 6 other months that history is and will continue to be taught from a Eurocentric perspective (i,e White history, if you will). Apply the same argument to college funding, it’s a drop in the financial bucket. And if you see injustice to white people in the United Negro College then how do you feel about legacy appointments and folks who get into a great school, not because of their academic achievements but who their father was and how much he donated to build a particular wing? TV? No all white shows? Plenty of shows out there where you don’t have to see a minority. (Don’t ya’ll miss all but the last season of Friends?) I loved Cheers and damn! It was all white! I still love Fraser reruns!! But I digress;-) Sorry I don’t know the names of any new minority-free TV shows since I’ve been trying to curtail my TV time and study more music (but seriously, I can take an evening to find you some recommended suitable viewing ). Anyway, I know I won’t be changing your mind about what upsets you in this life but I can only hope to offer the readers of this topic an alternative and valid and positive opinion on who ISN’T to blame for this country’s problems and your oppression. peace |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
I just don't get it! What does skin colour have to do with anything? I am personally of mixed heritage including Scottish, Irish, English, Welsh, Spanish, and Native American.... Make that Canadian. Am I supposed to hate myself? Can't we accept each other as humans and therefore equals? Can't we make room for new ideas? After all, the drumset we play is a relatively "new" idea being less than a hundred years old. Wisdom is better than weapons... |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
It's great that you don't get it. Let's hope you never do. I'll assume that the rest of your reply is rhetorical and admire your sentiment for the positivity it projects. Teach it to your children..... |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Mike4, You are taking averages and statistics into this. I was not stating there are no or not enough TV shows, colleges, charities and so on, with whites only. The problem I have it that the government “mandates” set-asides for minorities. They (government laws, code of regulations, stipulations) demand “Guarantees” for minorities (you may read ‘to be given a chance’ here but I won’t) to be included in the day to day operations of the commercial dealings of the people of the United States. (Continuation of explanation of problem) and Nothing Guarantees Caucasians, Whites, Me, heterosexuals, law abiding 100% citizens, Anything. BTW I never saw an episode of Friends or Cheers so I have no opinion of them. I do watch the Chappelle Show often though, but that doesn’t have anything to do with anything. As far as who is to blame? I have no idea. I didn’t start this to come up with a solution. Just wanted to start some s--t I reckon. Worked, didn’t it!Holten? |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Jeez, are you still dwelling on this? One example with the numbers 6 & 12 and I'm bringing in averages and statistics? It's obvious that your gonna' hold onto whatever it takes to confirm that your being denied your rights and your perception of who's to blame has been pretty clear throughout this conversation (especially since everybody not white is not a 100% law abiding citizen- hmmm). So hey! You win, your right, it's your world, and it's definitely you're right to feel what you feel. But also note, this exchange started because you say you lost your job to minority set asides. And given the seriousness of a person's lively hood I don't make the next statement lightly but, if you expressed yourself on or around the job and it's employees like you do here, your employer may have taken the opportunity to get rid of a potential(if not already on-going) problem with your views seeing that you were in a position of authority over other people and a walking eeoc investigation waiting to happen now relax and try to take what joy out of life and the upcoming holidays that you can... or not. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
LMAO! |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
No, the company didn't get rid of me LOL, the company went broke because of the stuff. But yeah, you are right it is my world. The white people won it, my problem is the bleedin heart liberals that are givin it away. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
Quote: i think i heard that someone in boston tried to make a white american scholarship and ppl went ape on him. a mayor somewhere in pennsylvania wanted to make his town/ (or county) english speaking only. so .. if you can't speak english your f-ed i think he did pull it off too... people hated him for it though. i think if everyone wants so badly to be equal there should be no minority quota in jobs (everyone has = chance in getting a job) in fact .. the job should ALWAYS go to the most qualified. not go to a lesser qualified person to fill a rediculous quota. there should be no specialized scholarships for different races. (why can someone get a scholarship just for having a different skin color???) let them get scholarships from the schools and for getting good grades like everyone else. tv channels? each race get their own channel? it still seems like a concept that keeps things separated. there's people of all races on the regular channels. get rid of b.e.t because it seems like special treatment to me. all races and genders should get = pay for a particular job's wages. no less or more for being black, white, male. sorry for my ramble. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
aboutmy last post.. if i sounded racist .. it wasn't intended. i just mean that if everyone wants to be equal .. it should be equal. we don't have equal rights like they say we do. rich get benefits over the poor. minorities over majorities. (though it seems english speaking caucasion is becomming the minority ... ) |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
No disrespect intended, but how much do you know about your own country's history? All that seems to be happening is that the pendulum is starting to swing the other way, and some of the minorities need a hand to reach the starting line. In NZ we have separate Maori scholarships, a tv station, etc. This is only a recent development after 160 years of white state control (banning the use of Maori language, taking land from Maori for European settlement by various means and so on). Having said that, I agree that jobs etc need to go to the most qualified individual... but on the other hand, minorities need role models to look up to. This seems to be a purely white left wing reaction - take recent events in the UK where MP's were sending each other 'holiday' cards, without any mention of the word Christmas. These MP's believed it would offend Muslims, Hindus etc to use the word Xmas, but did they ask them if they were offended? Heck no! The Muslim leader they asked was looking forward to a few days public holiday... So, what I am saying is, don't be so protective of what you perceive as 'your rights' - no-one is out to squash you. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
Quote: "The white people won it"? From whom? The native Americans? Who, from all the old John Wayne films etc that I've viewed were called by the derogatory name "Redskins", armed only with bows and arrows to defend THEIR country from gun happy settlers! It doesn't sound very "Fair" to me. According to the history books it was taken by force and the indiginous population were forced to become the "Minority" on their own land!! Does this mean if squatters were to force entry into our homes whilst we were out, that by right, they would have "WON" the privilage to claim it as their own? We live in a multi-racial world, the only way around it would be for everyone to return to their ancestral birthplace, (and stay there), It begs the question as to where most of us would end up living!!!! |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
I couldn't agree more Juze! The trouble is, as you stated, "...It begs the question as to where most of us would end up living!!!" I think I'd need a few passports since I am of Welsh, (like you)Irish, Scottish, British, Spanish, and Native Canadian ancestry. Can Haggis be made with a Buffalo stomach...? Isn't it time we began to realize that we are ALL human and therefore alike? |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
Quote:LOL! I haven't been following this whole thread, but I must say that getting laid off or whatever tends to bring alot of feelings to the surface.. its natural to play the blame game.. like that manager only kept his/her 'friends' and fired everyone else; or whatever bugaboo you can think of. The best recourse is to put it behind you and find a new job. Like they say in that movie "Change is good donkey!" |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
Quote: Yup! Go Loco went loco, or more descriptively: cookoo, cookoo, cookoo . . . ! |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Rat, you don't know anything about this so lie down again ok? go look for some welfare cheese |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Anger begets anger... |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
"the goverment thinks we can be supressed with SUV's, plasma screen-tv's, and material **** like that." Yes; it's bread and circuses. Would you consider supporting Dr. Ron Paul? He is the return of the citizen-statesman, and respects the rights, responsibilities (and income) of the individual. Though I would like a plasma tv. :) |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Who is Ron Paul? I'd go for some plasma too. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
i have a plasma it's freaking awesome!!! i used to have an suv, but i'm sick of them! if you have to say who is Ron Paul, then he ain't worth voting for!!!! |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
LMMFAO! Happy New Year Kids! Wasn't Ron Paul a black transvestite? |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
Quote: Maybe! But then, so is Rudy Giulliani! |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
Quote:Quote: sick! but funny. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
YOU ARE A BRAINLESS IMBICILE ! I HAVE A CHALLENGE FOR YOU. NAME A COUNTRY YOU HATE MORE THAN AMERICA ! AND I HAVE A DARE FOR YOU. NAME A COUNTRY YOU THINK IS BETTER AND MOVE YOUR WASTE OF HUMAN FLESH THERE. I DARE YOU. BUT I KNOW YOU WON'T BECAUSE YOU ARE A LIBERAL. AND LIBERALS ARE GUTLESS COWARDS WHO CAN WHINE AND CRY LIKE SISSYBOYS BUT RUN LIKE YELLOWBELLIES WHEN CONFRONTED. I FOUGHT FOR MY COUNTRY AND STILL BEAR THE SCARS. IF YOU HAD TO FIGHT FOR ANYTHING YOU WOULD RUN AWAY. I FEEL SORRY FOR ANY FAMILY MEMBERS WHO MIGHT NEED YOU FOR SECURITY. WHY DON'T YOU GO TO HELL IN THE HANDBASKET YOU MENTIONED. THERE IS ONE THING YOU WILL NEVER BE...A MAN ! |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
YOUR FACTS SOUND SO GOOD THEIR ALMOST BELIEVEABLE. IF ALL THE VOTER FRAUD YOU TALK ABOUT REALLY HAPPENED, DON'T YOU THINK THE DEMOCRATS( THE INVENTORS OF VOTER FRAUD) WOULD ACCEPT THE RESULTS. NO WAY. AND BT THE WAY, HOW COME YOU DIDN'T MENTION CHICAGO IN THE JFK ELECTION? IT IS NOW ON THE PUBLIC RECORD THAT ENOUGH VOTES WERE CAST FOR THE DEMOCRATIC TICKET BY PEOPLE THAT WERE DEAD, IT ALLOWED JFK TO WIN CHICAGO AND THUS CARRY THE WHOLE STATE OF ILLINOIS AND WIN THE ELECTION FOR PRESIDENT. THE REPUBLICAN PARTY WANTED NIXON TO DEMAND A RECOUNT BUT HE REFUSED,SAYING IT COULD DO SERIOUS HARM TO THE COUNTRY. YOU REMEMBER NIXON...THE ONE YOU HATE SO MUCH. THE ONE THAT ENDED THE VIETNAM WAR THAT THE DEMOCRATS GOT US INTO. THE ONE THAT ENDED THE DRAFT.THE ONE THAT SIGNED THE LEGISLATION TO FORM THE ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY. WHEN ANYONE MENTIONS NIXON,ALL THE SHOUT IS "WATERGATE" . NIXON RESIGNED SO AS NOT TO FACE IMPEACHMENT. HIS "CRIME" WAS NOT THE WATERGATE BREAK-IN. IT WAS BEING ON TV AND LYING TO THE PEOPLE BY SAYING "I DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT IT" GOLLY GOSH...SOME YEARS LATER A DEMOCRAT WENT ON TV AND SAID "I DIDN'T DODGE THE DRAFT"..."I DIDN'T SMOKE POT"..."I DIDN'T HAVE SEX WITH THAT WOMAN" BUT OF COURSE,IF YOU'RE A DEMOCRAT,LYING IS THE NORM. IN FACT,IT'S EXPECTED BEHAVIOR. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO TRUTH IN ANY OF YOUR STATEMENTS. WERE DO YOU GET YOUR FACTS FROM ? |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
JUST SOME INFORMATION FOR THE UNEDUCATED. OUR COUNTRY IS A REPUBLIC. YOU SEEM TO THINK THAT ALL THE ILLS ARE THE FAULT OF THE REPUBLICANS. FOR YOUR INFO,THE DEMOCRATS CONTROLLED CONGRESS FROM 1942(WHEN FDR WAS PRESIDENT) ALL THE WAY UP TO GEORGE BUSH SR'S ELECTION. REPUBLICANS HAVE ALWAYS BEEN FOR SMALL GOV'T. AND DEMOCRATS ARE FOR BIG GOV'T. ALL THIS NONSENSE ABOUT REPUBLICANS CONTROLLED BY BIG BUSINESS IS JUST THAT...NONSENSE. THE DEMOCRATS HAVE THEIR FINGERS ENTRENCHED IN THE BANKING AND CREDIT CARD INDUSTRIES. EVEN BIG BUSINESS HAS TO RELY ON THEM FOR LOANS AND CREDIT. ONE THING TO REMEMBER...YES, CORPORATE BIG WIGS ARE GREEDY THIEVES BUT THEY HAVE NO ALLEGENCE TO ANY POLITICAL PARTY. ONLY THEMSELVES. AND AS MUCH AS WE MIGHT HATE BUSINESS,THE FREE ENTERPRISE SYSTEM HAS MADE OUR ECONOMY THE STRONGEST IN THE WORLD. EVEN IN OUR RECENT RECESSION,OTHER COUNTRIES ENVY OUR SUCCESS. REMEMBER...BUSINESSES AND CORPORATIONS SUPPLY JOBS. HOW CAN HURTING THEM HELP THE JOB MARKET? ON THE OTHER HAND, I THINK THE BUMS INVOLVED IN THE ENRON SCANDLE SHOULD HAVE BEEN FORCED TO GIVE UP EVERY POSSESION THEY OWN,PAY BACK EVERY PENNY THEY STOLE, AND THEN BE EXECUTED. YOU SEEM TO LEAN TOWARDS A COMMUNIST OR SOCIALIST FORM OF GOV'T. WELL, RED CHINA HAD A SCANDLE SIMILAR TO OUR ENRON DEBACLE. AND THEY STRIPPED THE GUILTY PARTIES OF EVERYTHING THEY OWN AND THEN KILLED THEM ! THINK ABOUT IT. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
THERE IS A COMMIE WHO CALLS HIMSELF RATAMATATT. HE SAYS HE IS FROM ARRAKIS. DOES ANYONE KNOW WHERE THAT IS ? |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
people have a right to there own opinions, wether you or i agree with it ALS. i think you need to take this a little less personal, and allow them to vent there feelings. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
It's a free country - that means you have freedom to say what you want, and so does everyone else. Give it a rest, ALS. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
ALISTAIR...YOU DON'T EVEN LIVE IN MY COUNTRY. HOW DARE YOU CRITICIZE IT. YOU MIGHT NOT LIKE ME AS A PERSON, BUT I CAN ASSURE YOU THAT I HAVE TOO MUCH CLASS AND INTELLIGENCE TO CRITIZE SOMEONE ELSES COUNTRY. PEOPLE DO HAVE THE RIGHT TO THEIR OPINION,BUT THEY SHOULD AT LEAST KNOW WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
HEY RATAMATT...WHERE IS ARRIKAS ? |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
AS USUAL YOU HAVE YOUR FACTS WRONG. EVEN IF IF THE VOTING MACHINE PEOPLE PAID OFF EVERY REPUBLICAN IN OFFICE(ANOTHER RIDICULOUS ACCUSATION BY YOU)HOW COULD IT HAVE WORKED? THE DEMOCRATS HAVE THE MAJORITY VOTE IN CONGRESS ! |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Hey ALS you said your opinion, let everyone else say theirs! now you're just being redundant, and insultive! |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
You're right - I don't live in your country. I don't remember criticising it though - freedom of speech is a 'given' for most of us in the western world nowadays. Whether I like you as a person is neither here nor there; I was merely pointing out that people are free to voice their opinions. The first amendment to the US constitution says clearly: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." There you go. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
i'm on your side Alistair! |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
I know! |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
"Arrakis, is a fictional desert planet" And for the record, the constitution doesn't cover accuracy of the freedom of speech. One can be as ignorant or incorrect as one wants and the freedom of speech is still granted (slander and libel notwithstanding). From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Arrakis is also an alternative name for the star Mu Draconis. Arrakis Arrakis, from David Lynch's Dune (1984) Statistics Universe Dune universe Planet type Desert Notable locations Arrakeen Notable races Fremen Creator Frank Herbert Arrakis, (الراقص ar-rāqiṣ, "the dancer") later Rakis (informally known as Dune) is a fictional desert planet featured in the Dune series of novels by Frank Herbert; it is the home of the Fremen (Zensunni wanderers) and later, the Imperial Capital under the Atreides Empire. Arrakis is the third planet orbiting the star Canopus, and it in turn is orbited by two moons, one of which has the image of the desert kangaroo mouse, Muad'Dib, on it; the other moon possesses the image of a human hand. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
i love that Dune that's great! |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
I JUST RE-READ YOUR POST AND YOU ARE RIGHT. I SAW NO CRITICIZING OF AMERICA. I STAND CORRECTED ! GUYS KEEP TELLING ME THAT THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO THEIR OPINION. OF COURSE THEY DO ! I'M SIMPLY SAYING TO THEM TO BASE THEIR OPINION ON FACT AND NOT EMOTION.IS BUSH A GREAT PRESIDENT ? ABSOLUTELY NOT. IS HE A GREAT PERSON ? OF COURSE NOT, HE HAS FAULTS LIKE THE REST OF US. BUT TO HEAR PEOPLE COMPARE HIM TO HITLER,STALIN, SATAN,ETC. JUST SHOWS THAT I'M RIGHT. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
I KNEW THAT NAME WAS FAMILIAR. SO ACCORDING TO YOU,RATAMATATT IS NOT ONLY NOT AMERICAN HE'S NOT EVEN FROM THIS PLANET ! |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
I've had my doubts. But I'm told he's a Space Cowboy, AKA the Gangster of Love. Some people call him Maurice...... |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
als you were arguing out of emotions too. plus politics are part emotions! i always thought our constitution stated basic "human" rights! not just the rights of citizens of the USA! which protect criticing this country. factually or emotionaly. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
ALS - I understand where you're coming from, but to me, so-called 'facts' are interpreted in different ways. Hitler, Stalin etc all achieved things which weren't evil (e.g. Hitler built the autobahn system - probably to aid quicker deployment of his troops, but it's an achievement). Sometimes a bit of distance from the situation helps as well (time or km's). I don't know how Bush is viewed in USA at the moment, but it's probably a different view than most others in the world have about him. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
OK...FAIR ENOUGH..LET ME TRY TO SHOW YOU WHERE I'M COMING FROM. LAST YEAR,AT GIANTS STADIUM,TEAM USA PLAYED TEAM MEXICO. WHEN THE MEXICAN NATIONAL ANTHEM WAS PLAYED EVERYONE,AMERICANS INCLUDED,STOOD SILENTLY. WHEN THE AMERICAN ANTHEM WAS PLAYED THESE MEXICANS AND I MEAN MOST OF THEM BOOED AS LOUDLY AS THEY COULD. SOME OF THEM EVEN HAD SMALL AMERICAN FLAGS THAT THEY WAVED UPSIDE DOWN! DID THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO THIS ? YES..THEY DID. BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN I HAVE TO LIKE IT !!! I WOULDN'T THINK OF DOING THAT IN SOMEONE ELSES COUNTRY. BUT I HAVE TO STAND BY AND DO NOTHING WHILE THESE PIECES OF s--t TAKE EVERYTHING THIS COUNTRY HAS TO OFFER AND THEN THEY HATE US. SO GO AHEAD AND TELL ME ABOUT THEIR "FREEDOM OF WHATEVER" SOME THINGS ARE JUST WRONG. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
ALISTAIR...I DIDN'T MEAN TO RANT ON YOU. ACTUALLY,YOU SEEM VERY LEVEL HEADED. IN FACT I WOULD VERY MUCH ENJOY HAVING YOU AS MY GUEST HERE ACROSS THE POND. WE COULD HAVE A FEW PINTS TOGETHER AND AS WE DRINK MORE AND MORE, WE COULD SOLVE ALL THE WORLD,S PROBLEMS. YOU'RE RIGHT, I TAKE THINGS TO PERSONALLY. BUT I'M JUST SICK AND TIRED OF PEOPLE TELLING ME THAT THE THINGS I BELIEVE IN SO DEEPLY ARE THE CAUSE OF ALL THE WORLD'S PROBLEMS WHEN ALL ALONG THEY ARE USING FALSEHOODS,INUENDOES, AND COMPLETELY ERRONEOUS FACTS AND FIGURES TO BOLSTER THEIR ACCUSATIONS. MY SISTER IN LAW IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE. SHE HATES CORPORATIONS. OK,FINE...AND SHE HATES LABOR UNIONS. BUT THE "CORPORATION" IS GIVING HER A JOB WITH A VERY GOOD SALARY AND FREE MEDICAL BENEFITS. THEN SHE TELLS ME THAT UNIONS ARE RUINING THE COUNTRY. OK,FINE. SHE HAS HER OPINION. BUT THEN SHE ALWAYS VOTES FOR THE DEMOCRATS. THE PARTY THAT CALLS ITSELF "THE FRIEND OF LABOR"! THE LABOR UNIONS ALWAYS GIVE HUGE DONATIONS TO THE DEMOCRATS.WHEN I REMIND HER OF THIS SHE HAS NOTHING TO SAY. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Usually peoples' actions towards others tell you more about them than it does about the people they are taking action against (if you get my drift). Quite possibly they are scared; one of the largest and most powerful nations in the world seems (to them and others) to be taking whatever action it deems necessary without solid basis in fact (e.g. "weapons of mass destruction" or lack of). The fact that they (or any other small country) could be in the firing line next may be prompting much of this anti-American backlash. If you need a metaphor, imagine being at school again - one of the kids in your year is much bigger than most others, and recently seems to be picking on people. How would you feel about him? Hopefully this is all level headed enough! I don't know if I'm too level headed really, I'd like to think so! ![]() I'm a teetotaller (since I was 18), but there's nothing stopping you boozing! ![]() We're all drummers here - let's argue, but then put it behind us!
|
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
Quote: OMG - if true, that's so wrong on so many levels! That's absolutely disgusting - anyone that would boo another countries anthem - in the host country no less - are nothing but low class pigs. I heard a similar story at one of those beauty pageants in Mexico City where the host country crowd booed Miss USA everytime she took the stage.. not that I'm into that sort of thing, but crowd behaviour like that is beneath contempt.. it says more about the 'booers' than it does about the message they are trying to get across - ignorant swine! |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
that's a shame but it does happen to us(the usa) alot. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
AAH,YES...THE BULLY AT SCHOOL. THE LAST THING I WOULD DO IS ANTAGONIZE HIM ! IF I HEARD HE WAS PICKING ON PEOPLE,I'D SURE AS HECK MAKE GOOD FRIENDS WITH HIM. NOW,WITHOUT GOING INTO A LONG DISCOURSE ON IRAQ,BE CLEAR ON ONE THING: THE MUSLIMS ATTACKED NEW YORK AND KILLED ALMOST 3,000 PEOPLE. MANY OF THEM WERE FOREIGN VISITORS AND BUSINESSMEN FROM OTHER COUNTRIES. THE MUSLIM PIGS THAN DECLARED WAR ON THE U.S. AND ALL IT'S ALLIES.THEY DID THIS IN FRONT OF THE WHOLE WORLD. WHAT RESPONSE SHOULD WE HAVE GIVEN ? THEY SWORE "DEATH TO AMERICA". WELL EXCUSE ME FOR GOING INTO IRAQ AND KILLING AS MANY MAD DOGS AS POSSIBLE. THEY ASKED FOR IT. ONE FINAL QUESTION FOR EVERYONE OUT THERE: NAME A COUNTRY THAT HAS A MUSLIM POPULATION OF MORE THAN A FEW THOUSAND THAT IS NOT HAVING A PROBLEM WITH THEM ? YOU CAN'T. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
No, not the bully. You misunderstood me - I mean one of the biggest kids (i.e. more powerful). Bullies can be of all shapes or sizes. If you look at past Muslim uprisings, often the cry is "death to...". A lot of the time they have fizzled out. In order to continue with your argument, I would have to agree/disagree on whether Al Qaeda and Iraq are linked. Whether that is true or not is a whole other can of worms. Al Qaeda is not representing mainstream Muslim beliefs - most of the Muslim beliefs are similar to Christian and Jewish beliefs. Iraq was being supplied by Britain and the USA in the 80's so they would stand up to Iran. Then these supplied weapons get turned on Britain and USA later on, when they decide Saddam probably wasn't quite the right guy for the job. NZ has a Muslim population - the only trouble we get is people attacking them when events out in the world reflect badly on them. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
IF YOU HAVEN'T HAD A PROBLEM WITH THEM YET,YOU WILL.JUST ASK YOUR AUSSIE NEIGHBORS. THESE MUSLIMS MOVE TO OTHER COUNTRIES SAYING THEY WANT RELIGIOUS PEACE. THEN THEY ALWAYS INSIST THAT THEIR NEW HOST COUNTRY BEND OVER BACKWARDS TO CATER TO THEM. I'LL GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE:A FEW YEARS AGO,MY UNCLE AND I TRAVELED TO THE PHILLIPINES FOR THE WORLD BOWLING COMPETITION. WHILE THERE,WE ASKED OUR PHILLIPINO FRIENDS TO TAKE US TO MINDENAO,A WORLD WAR 2 MEMORIAL. WE WERE TOLD THAT THEY WOULDN'T GO THERE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE. THAT PART OF THEIR COUNTRY HAS BEEN SETTLED BY MUSLIMS AND EVEN THE PHILLIPINE POLICE STAY AWAY. THE MAD DOGS MADE IT CLEAR THAT THEY DON'T WANT "OUTSIDERS" IN THEIR COMMUNITY.I HATE TO SAY THIS,BUT IT WILL HAPPEN TO YOUR WONDERFUL COUNTRY ALSO IF YOU DON'T WATCH THEM CAREFULLY. ASK ANY LONDONER,OR ANY BRIT FOR THAT MATTER WHAT THEY THINK OF MUSLIMS. AND DON'T THINK IT'S BECAUSE ENGLAND IS AN ALLY OF THE USA. MUSLIMS HAVE BEEN CAUSING TROUBLE,STARTING WITH LONDON, SINCE THE 70'S. LONG BEFORE IRAQ AND IRAN BECAME ISSUES. ONE LAST THING...I HOPE YOU'RE NOT ONE OF THOSE LIBERALS WHO THINK IT'S NEVER THE CRIMINALS FAULT. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
I really don't know about Aussie's troubles with Muslims. As for catering for new migrants, countries have had to do that right throughout the course of history. Those Native Americans for instance; or Maori over here - just another way to look at it. The Muslims and the Christians have had a love/hate relationship over the years; just think of the Crusades (and you can't tell me it was the Muslims' fault). We learned more from them than we did from any other culture during that time - Muslims helped sustain and spread knowledge throughout the 'Dark Ages' in Europe. I don't think it's never the criminals' fault though. I do believe you have to look at a situation from more than one perspective before you can understand it. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
L CAN'T IMAGINE WHERE YOU GET YOUR INFORMATION FROM. MUSLIMS HAVE BEEN KILLING CHRISTIANS AND JEWS SINCE THE BEGINNING. CHRISTIANS, CATHOLICS ACTUALLY,FINALLY HAD ENOUGH AND THE CRUSADES TOOK PLACE. IT WAS IN THE THIRD CRUSADE THAT THE MUSLIMS GAINED SUBSTANTIAL VICTORY AND OVERRAN SPAIN AND PORTUGAL. THERE IS A LARGE POPULATION OF MUSLIMS IN THESE COUNTRIES EVEN TODAY. AND REALLY...THINK ABOUT IT. WHAT DID THE MUSLIMS EVER TEACH ANYBODY EXCEPT HOW TO BE TERRORISTS ? PLEASE NAME A CONTRIBUTION THAT THE MUSLIMS HAVE MADE IN WORLD SOCIETY? ASK ANYONE YOU MEET TO NAME 4 GREAT MUSLIMS. THEY CAN'T. NO ONE CAN. MUSLIMS CONSIDER ANY NON-MUSLIMS BENEATH THEM. AS THE KORAN SAYS "KILL THE INFIDELS" AND I'M AFRAID TO SAY THIS,MY FRIEND,BUT ARE AN INFIDEL IN THEIR EYES. YOU ARE "TOLERATED" AND THAT'S IT. I SPENT 20 YEARS TEACHING IN A TRADE SCHOOL. MOST OF MY STUDENTS WERE BETWEEN 20 AND 30 YRS. OLD. I DEALT WITH MUSLIM STUDENTS ON A 1 ON 1 BASIS FOR ALL THOSE YEARS. AND BELIEVE ME, THEY ARE ARROGANT, COLD AND UNTRUSTWORTHY. AFTER HOURS,WE HAD SOME LIVELY DEBATES. THEY ABSOLUTELY REFUSE TO SEE ANY POINT OF VIEW BUT THEIR OWN. IF YOU'RE NOT A MUSLIM,YOUR OPINION IS SIMPLY DISMISSED OUT OF HAND. IT'S THE ONLY RELIGION WHERE THE DIFFERENT SECTS KILL EACH OTHER. IMAGINE WHAT YOU WOULD THINK IF LUTHERANS STARTED KILLING BAPTISTS BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT FOLLOWING THE BIBLE "CORRECTLY " THIS IS JUST ONE OF MANY EXAMPLES. PLEASE BE CAREFUL...YOU HAVE A GREAT COUNTRY,BUT IT'S TOO SMALL TO SUPPORT A LARGE MUSLIM POPULATION. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
The crusades started to ensure that Christian pilgrims could gain access to the Holy Land, particularly Jerusalem. Compared to Christian parts of Spain, the Muslim parts were 'enlightened' and more modern: better sanitation for example. As for what Muslims have taught us - most modern medical treatment and theory has a foundation in Islamic medicine. They either passed down knowledge from the 'ancients' (which the rest of Europe forgot about - hence the 'Dark Ages') or discovered knowledge of their own. Yes, they did help create the 'assassin', but that was only a small sect of their faith. Mathematics as we know it is largely down to Islamic developments. You are talking about Muslims nowadays - every society goes through stages; it's zenith and nadir. And the comment about Lutherans killing Baptists - have you not heard of the 30 years war? the Spanish Armada? Catholics vs Protestants? As for where I get my knowledge from - I studied Medieval History and Religion at University... |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
WHO WAS YOUR PROFESSOR ? BETTER SANITATION ?! EVEN TODAY,THESE PEOPLE IN THE MIDDLE EAST STILL SQUAT OVER A HOLE IN THE FLOOR. EXCEPT THE WEALTHY. MY BROTHER WENT TO ISRAEL ON A TOUR ABOUT 6 OR 7 YEARS AGO. HE SAID MOST OF THE CITIES HE SAW WERE LIKE MOST OF THE CITIES IN DEVELOPED COUNTRIES.WHILE JUST ACROSS THE BORDER,THE MUSLIM COMMUNITIES HE SAW WERE SLUMS. AND ANCIENT GREEKS AND ROMANS GAVE US SO MUCH MORE IN MEDICINE AND MATHEMATICS THAN THE MUSLIMS,IT'S LAUGHABLE. ARISTOTLE,HYPOCRATES, PLATO ETC. WERE DEFINATELY NOT MUSLIMS.EGYPT WAS ONCE ONE OF THE GREATEST SOCIETIES ON EARTH. NOW THAT ISLAM IS FIRMLY ENTRENCHED THERE,THEY HAVE NOTHING TO OFFER ANYBODY. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
The Muslim areas did have better sanitation than the Christian areas - squatting over a hole was better than chucking s**t in open sewers... And, as I said above, we wouldn't know anything about ancient Roman or Greek knowledge nowadays, if the Muslims hadn't kept that knowledge alive. Also, like I said above, each culture goes through peaks and troughs. The peak of Islamic culture was during Western Europe's 'Dark Ages'. You keep referring to Islamic culture nowadays, as if nothing would change in a culture over 1200 years; of course it will! Please do some research on this before dismissing out of hand what I am saying. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
LOOK...I AM TALKING ABOUT TODAY ! REHASHING WHAT HAPPENED 500 YEARS AGO WON'T CHANGE ANYTHING. I CAN'T UNDERSTAND WHY YOU KEEP DEFENDING MUSLIMS. THESE SUB-CREATURES ARE RUINING OR WILL SOMEDAY RUIN EVERY COUNTRY THEY CAN. AND YOU BETTER TAKE THIS TO HEART, YOUNG MAN:WHEN THE SHOOTING STARTS(AND IT WILL WITHIN 20 YRS)YOU AND YOUR FAMILY WILL BE AMONG THE FIRST CASUALTIES. FOR YOU WILL HAVE TURNED YOUR BACK TO THE ENEMY THINKING HE WON'T HURT YOU BECAUSE YOU'RE NICE. AND I'M STILL WAITING FOR YOU TO NAME 4 MUSLIMS WHO HAVE ADDED SOMETHING POSITIVE TO WORLD SOCIETY. I'LL EVEN GIVE YOU A HEAD START:MOHAMMED ALI |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
In order to understand the future, you need to have an appreciation of what has happened before. Since you seem to be so one-sided, I'm just arguing the opposite point of view. You don't need to be patronising or threatening in order to get your point across. Why just name 4 Muslims? Benazir Bhutto, Cat Stevens, Mohammed Ali, Khalid ibn Yazid (Calid). |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
I WILL ADMIT,YOU'RE THE FIRST PERSON I'VE MET WHO CAN NAME ANY MUSLIMS AT ALL. I GUESS YOU COULD INCLUDE CAT STEVENS. I'M NOT BEING PATRONIZING OR THREATENING. I'M TRYING TO WARN YOU OF IMPENDING DANGER. YOU JUST SEEM TO BE TOO NAIVE TO RECOGNIZE IT. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
ALS, Alistair doesn't seem to be naive to me like he said he is just arguing the opposite point of view! A point counterpoint thing. i've been following this thread. i have my opinions on the subject, and i'm intersted in both of yours! it's a touchy subject and i've been irritated and intrigued while reading. ALS you do come off as one sided, and i can't say i have diagreed with you much on the subject, but i haven't disagreed with Alistair at all! so i guess i'm of no help to you guys on this,lol. so then what does everyone think of Obama and McCain? |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Cat Stevens is now called Yusuf Islam (I think) - and has converted to Islam, so he is a Muslim. I could add plenty more to that list as well, but (I hope) we're not scoring points here. I don't think I'm being naive about the threat which modern Islam poses, especially in NZ, nor complacent. The only way to find out will be to wait and see. It may be better if we both just agree to disagree. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
i think the muslims that are causing the problems are a minority of radicalist! there are just as many radical christians in this world too! |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Hear, hear! The radicals are the ones who refuse to compromise on anything, and completely believe their own 'hype', so to speak. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
wow, Alistair that is the perfect definition. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
But, how do you deal with them? That's the hard part... |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Told ya so |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
It's probably a good thing I only just discovered this thread. Just read all 10 pages of it. Got pretty heated at times. (Got ME pretty heated at times). I'm surprised it wasn't administratively deleted. I got into trouble at another site for posting MUCH tamer debate points. It's good to know there's quite a bit of tolerance here for opposing political viewpoints. Good job to all participants. And I'll leave it at that. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Well things just need to be said from time to time. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Wow! I haven't looked at this thread in over 2 years. I see a creature who calls himself ALS has had a few unkind comments to make about me no less that 6 months after my last post. Perhaps ALS suffers from amyotrophic lateral sclerosis ("ALS"), and is extremely bitter about it. If so, I can understand his bitterness, and I'm very sorry for that. What I won't tolerate is his blithering stupidity. ALS, it works like this, there are 2 kinds of republicans: (1) idiots, and (2) crooks. You would be an idiot, a dupe, and a dope. You are a fugitive from evolution. The scum that you vote for (like the draft dodging cowards Bush and Cheney), and fight for (like the fascist corporatists Exxon and Haliburton), those would be crooks. Conservatism is institutionalized stupidity. You are the epitome of a conservative. You and your dim witted, pea brained kind will be consumed by evolution soon enough. Goodbye, and don't let the door hitcha where evolution splitcha! |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
There, you see how stupid some people can be? LMAO But he does practice at it. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
Quote: Hey Rat! don't generalise. you'd be surprised how many of your friends and relatives vote conservative! |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
Quote:Quote: No I wouldn't. I've got plenty of idiot friends and family! |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
Quote: From a guy who voted for the corporatist, fascist, pimp, Bitch McConnell! |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
Quote:Quote:Quote: why do you have to talk like that? it only makes you look like an idiot. people can disagree politically and not insult each other. i have alot of intelligent friend that i disagree with politically. they're good people, they just vote incorrectly. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
Quote:Quote:Quote:Quote: I speak the truth. And I speak it clearly and concisely. If I look like an idiot to you, then that reveals more about you than me. I stand by all of my premises as set forth above, and previously in this thread, and I have yet to find an exception to any of them. I don't suffer ignorance, stupidity, bigotry, hatred or any of the other conservative traits, from anyone, ever. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
Quote:Quote:Quote:Quote:Quote: those are not conservative traits, those are ignorant traits. which i only see coming out of you RAT! open mindedness is a trait for all citizens and countrymen. sceptisen is what we use to analise our politicians not each other. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Awful - don't waste your time conversing with a liberal. They are just plain stupid. Creeping socialism and a corrupted sytem have destroyed this country financially. People that are for big government and against capitalism are just stupid. I should add that not only are they stupid they are most likely lazy as well. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
Quote: More evidence that conservatism is institutionalized stupidity! You have no idea what you're talking about. Douche Limbag would be proud. But, to be fair, explain with specificity, if you can, the relationship between socialism and the currently hopelessly corrupt government, and further, how creeping socialism destroyed this country, financially. BTW, have you ever heard of Alan Greenspan? Are you familiar with his background? Are you aware of the substance of his testimony to Congress in October, 2008? That's what I thought! Idiot! |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
Quote: I couldn't disagree more. Ignorance is the foundation of conservatism. They are, as a practical matter, indistinguishable. Over the past 30 years, conservatism has been the engine behind the corporate takeover and corruption of the government and the downfall of the American economy. Openmindedness is a useless, meaningless standard. Truth is the only thing that matters. Further, no one is exempt from scrutiny. If you make a stupid or knowingly false statement, you deserve to be rebuked for it. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Rat, i'm not trying to argue politics (youe opinions are yours, i'm not trying to change them). it's that you sound, to me, that you're attacking people unstead od politics. i didn't mean you're ignorant i just meant you're coming across in an ignorant manor. i do disagree with you politicaly and i'm not getting into it with you without seeing you face to face. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
Quote: thank you 777. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
Quote: So, let's see if I understand correctly. You stand silent in the face of ALS's pejorative comments about me, but you criticize me for my "response in kind" to ALS, because you agree with ALS's politics and you disagree with mine. Does that about sum it up, Awful? Predictable! |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
again, i'm not argueing politics here. your opinions are your right to have. if i actually knew you(i never confuse online with actually meating) i would discuse this to your face.i said i disagree with you politicly to make it obvious i'm a conservative. the only thing predictable is that a liberal and a concervative will disagree! |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
Quote: Now, you're dodging the issue. The issue is that you're fine with a blowhard wingnut making pejorative comments about me. But, when I respond in a like manner, you're all offended by it. The hypocrisy is what is predictable. Never mind that my comments have merit and his do not. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Rat, it's a very long post. i'm sorry but i haven't read every post. quote what you're refering too. i don't know what was said to you. in my opinion i haven't read one thing of yours that has "merit"! besides we have a totaly new presidential team in office get over bush! |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
Quote: I believe that most informed liberals would read your comments, shrug their shoulders, shake their heads and move on. I can't. Although, my comments may be sarcastic, understand that (1) I say exactly what I think, and (2) I take the time to write, in part, because I think there's hope. First, it comes as no surprise that a self described "conservative" would come to this "political" thread and express judgments about me (or anything for that matter), without ever having read the thread. Proceeding in ignorance, or worse, misinformation, is the calling card of conservatism. I would suggest that you read the whole thread before commenting further. You might learn something. You might be prepared to make an informed rebuttal to my comments. Second, your suggestion to "get over Bush" is the height of ignorance and hypocrisy, and makes no more sense than to declare that I should "get over Osama Bin Laden," whose murderous crimes pale in comparison to those of Bush and his despicable family. Perhaps you would also suggest that we just "get over" all of the crimes of all the prisoners in every jail and prison in America, all of whose crimes pale in comparison to those of Bush and his family. That would make more sense, and result in less injustice, than what you suggest. Justice demands that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Gonzales, et al. be tried in the International Criminal Court in The Hague for their war crimes, and to be tried in the federal court for their enumerated crime of Fraud on the United States, and conspiracy to commit fraud on the United States, given fair trials, and sentenced accordingly. Neither I, nor anyone who has two neurons between their ears to rub together, will EVER "get over" the war criminals Bush, Cheney and their entire war profiteering administration and corporatist, fascist supporters and war profiteers, any sooner than we will "get over" the crimes of Hitler and the Nazis. The only difference that I see between Bush and Hitler is that Bush did it for money, Hitler was a lunatic. Which is worse? Rather, I WILL CONTINUE TO SPEAK THE TRUTH ABOUT BUSH, HIS FAMILY, CHENEY, AND THEIR CRIMINAL ADMINISTRATION, AND THEIR CORRUPT AND/OR HAPLESS SUPPORTERS, IN PERPETUITY! Further, tell me how many times have you said that Rush Limbaugh, or Glen Beck, or Sean Hannity, or Bill O'Reilly, or Michael Weiner, or any of the 100's of wingnut, corporatist, fascist, propagandists who pollute the American media, should just "get over" Bill Clinton, or Jimmy Carter, or JFK, or Franklyn f***ing Delano Roosevelt for crying out loud? Or, is your suggestion reserved only for informed liberals who step on your fairy tail belief system by speaking the truth about the corporatist, fascist, war criminals that you support? YOU GET OVER IT! In addition to his criminal enterprises, the pimp, Bush, by and through his complete corruption and administrative incompetence, has perpetuated the fraud and idiocy of so called "conservative" economic policy of unregulated "free market" capitalism, advocated by the corporatist, fascists to the ignorant conservatives, to unprecedented levels after the Great Depression, resulting in the greatest economic collapse since the Great Depression, which also resulted from unregulated "free market" capitalism. The entire "conservative movement" has been a fraud and a failure, ab initio, beginning with the puppet, pimp, Ronald Reagan. As a result, living, breathing, voting American citizens no longer have any representation in government. Over the past 30 years, beginning with Reagan, the entire government, every branch, at every level federal, state and local, has been taken over by the corporatist, fascists. Virtually every law passed by Congress and every state legislature, and every regulation promulgated by every administrative agency state and federal, (INCLUDING AS ONE SMALL EXAMPLE, THE CURRENT PUTATIVE "HEALTH CARE REFORM BILL"), is WRITTEN BY THE LAWYERS WHO REPRESENT THE CORPORATE FASCISTS, FOR THEIR BENEFIT, TO PROTECT THEIR ECONOMIC INTERESTS, WHICH ARE IRRECONCILABLE WITH THE INTERESTS OF PUBLIC HEALTH, SAFETY AND WELFARE! This is the exact result that the Godless, amoral, ruthless, corporatists have worked for, and continue to work to maintain, by all manner of propaganda and subterfuge aimed at manipulating the legions of ignorant conservative voters. YOU VOTED FOR THAT! DOES IT MAKE YOU PROUD THAT YOU HAVE SUCCEEDED? After what has occurred right under your nose, the very idea that you would continue to proudly declaim that you are "a conservative" stands as a confession to anyone capable of even the most rudimentary critical thinking and analysis that you are utterly clueless and brainwashed! In my opinion, your cluelessness is a breach of your duty as an American and a voter, and a cause for the most profound shame on your part. Yet, you skip merrily along in your conservative ignorance, happy to adopt the vile, hateful, preposterous, pathological, corporatist, fascist propaganda spewed by corporate owned main stream media and their paid talking heads masquerading as journalists, as your own! GIVE THAT CONSERVATIVE A SCOOBY SNACK!!! |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Jesus...Dude...way before reagan...95% of all the elected officials are bought and paid for and do the bidding of those that put them there. You think that's some shocking revelation? Change your handle to Jenine Garafolo...you sound about the same. How's that hope and change working out? |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
Quote: Thank you for confirming, once again, that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. You're so brainwashed the truth is unrecognizable to you. You are however expert at parroting the mindless blather of teabagging wingnuttia! I also notice that you have conveniently ignored my standing question to you set forth above. I won't hold my breath! Now, in response to your rhetorical question, imagine where we would be if the corrupt, incompetent, egomaniacal, John McCain, who publicly admitted he knew very little about economics, had won the election and perpetuated the corrupt, incompetent, fraudulent trickle down policies of Reagan, Bush, Bush and the stinkpublicans. Never mind the fact that a dangerously inbred, psychopathic, dim witted, Neo-Nazi would be a heart attack, or assassin's bullet, away from the Presidency. McCain's economic advisor during his campaign was Phil Gramm. You should know all about this ass-wipe masquerading as a public servant! He was your Senator, before he quit to make his living pimping for the criminal enterprise, Swiss Bank, UBS, worldwie leader and purveyor of derivative contracts on subprime mortgage backed securities, which advised its employees not to travel to the U.S. for risk of being arrested. (I'm presuming that you know what mortgage backed securities and derivative contracts are, since you are so knowledgable about creeping socialism, after all. LMFAO!). Now, immagine that this UBS pimp, Phil Gramm, the architect of the Gramm, Leach, Bliley Banking Deregulation Act, (which repealed many of the safegards put in place following Great Depression which successfully prevented another finanical collapse for almost 70 years), and which was the single biggest influence in the world wide banking liquidity crisis and economic collapse of 2008, WAS SLATED TO BE MCCAIN'S TREASURY SECRETARY! SO, I'D SAY, COMPARED TO THE STINKPUBLICAN ALTERNATIVE, HOPE AND CHANGE IS WORKING OUT GREAT, IF FOR NO OTHER REASON THAN THAT THE PIMPS FOR THE CORPORATOCRACY WERE KEPT OUT OF POWER! "Those who cannot remember the past are doomed to repeat it." -- George Santayana But a Fox Noise junkie wouldn't know anything about any of that, would he! PS: FYI, every single republican in Congress, to a man (or woman), without exception, and about 25% of the Democrats, aspire to be equally as corrupt as Phil Gramm! So, how's your "freeeeeee market capitalism" workin' out for ya', wingnut? |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
OMG Rat! If you read what I said, that I wasn't going to discuss politics hear. You're very arguemenative. You just seem to want a fight. I can always handle a good discussion about politics at a civil mannor. But you're always on the attack. If some one else was attacking you I would have advised them to stop too. All I wanted was for you to say your points and opinions and your facts in a civil way. Other than stateing that I'm concervative I really didn't say anything to offend you. If I did offend you in any way other than my political stance than I'm truly sorry. Now say what you want on a human leval. I won't be posting in this thread anymore. I hope to have better conversations with you on other subjects, I do think you are a smart enthusiastic and informed drummer. I hope outside of this thread we can continue with the joy of this drum forum. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Glad you think creeping socialism is funny. The country is broke because of much of it. Your Hope and Change joke is a sleazy marxist lawyer that couldn't run a corner store. Your posts read like a typical deadbeat liberal. In less then 3 months in office your joke made sure this country is financially destroyed. In three months he increased the debt more than all the other presidents combined! Hello??And now you fools want healthcare for all. Cap and trade, for we must save the planet from global warming! What crap. Biggest scam ever. You're just a useful tool totally missing the big picture. It's all about control. You and your ilk should move to venezuela. There you could bask in the socialism you crave. News flash..Socialism DOESN'T Work! You should get some help on your Bush Chaney thing though, that's obviously a problem for you. Let it go man, move on. Let me guess....you have a government job? That would make sense. The only jobs the government can make are government jobs and they produce nothing. They feed like ticks off the taxpayers. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
I hate to even get back into this one .lol. But this is my 2 cents. Ted Kennedy's seat went to a republican. The Republicans won in Jersey and Virginia. If that is not a slap in the face to the Democrats, nothing will ever be. That is good. They don't get it. They are still trying to shove health care down our throats along with everything else. The American people are fed up with this crap. The Dem's are going to lose big time. And they still won't get it. They will just "Blame Bush". That's good. Keep it up. Continue to not get it. Not that the Repub's are much better. They don't get it either. Stop spending my kids and Grandkid's money. Stop bankrupting this country.Bush started it and Obama voted for it and then when he became President he increased it by 4 times. Don't even get me started about all the money being spent defending terrorists. Oh, ya. we don't call them that with this administration. ps. I don't think I have done any name calling here. Correct me if I'm wrong. I think that in November the Dem's are going to find out that a lot of Americans feel pretty close to how I feel. Time will tell. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
Quote: The way I look at it is that drummers are citizens, too. Although, I do think it's wise to keep the topic of politics sequestered in a separate area. As for civility, ONE MORE TIME, you're applying a double standard. Perhaps you haven't noticed that the corporatist fascists, their corporatist, propagandist, main stream media, and their hapless followers have elevated the employment of the most vile, despicable, hateful, bigoted rhetoric to insurmountable levels - for decades. Far worse than my comments can be read on this thread from such dupes. They deserve no less than "in-kind" treatment, and I'm more than happy to give it to them. Although, in fact, my comments are tame by comparison to some. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
Quote: Fox Noise: "Creeping socialism is destroying America." 777Drum: "Squawk, creeping socialism is destroying America, creeping socialism is destroying America, creeping socialism is destroying America, squaaaaawk." Once again, 777Drum, proves himself to be a blithering, blathering, brainwashed, idiot who has absolutely no idea what he's talking about! And now for something completely different, reality! (1) J. Carter national debt = $1 trillion, budget deficit < $50 billion. (2) R. Reagan national debt = $2.5 trillion, budget deficit = $250 billion. (3) G.H.W. Bush national debt = $4 trillion, budget deficit = $400 billion. (4) B. Clinton national debt = $2.5 trillion, BUDGET SURPLUS = $250 billion. (5) G.W. Bush national debt = $10 trillion, budget deficit = $1 trillion. (The fraudulent Iraq War for war profiteers has so far cost over $1 trillion, is projected to cost a total of $3 trillion, and not one penny is for the benefit of America. The Bush billionaire banker's tax cut benefited less than 1% of Americans and led to a quadrupling of the national debt under his watch). (6) Republicans can't balance a budget! They're too busy packing pork and cutting taxes for their billionaire banker and corporatist fascist pay masters. (7) Republicans can't win a war! They're too cowardly to fight and to fat to run. (8) Republicans can't protect America from domestic terrorist attacks! They're too busy planning fraudulent wars for the benefit of the war profiteering corporatocracy (9) Republican corporate, fascist, corruption of government, in every branch, at every level has destroyed America, democracy, the economy, and it will take 50 years of sacrifice by everyone, but, especially the corporatists, to undo the damage that these pigs have done. (10) If billionaire bankers and multinational corporations paid their fair share of taxes WHICH THEY DON'T, the middle class could pay less. (11) The $700 billion Economic Stimulus Bill reduced net job losses from 800,000 per month when G.W. Bush left office in January, 2009, to under 100 in December, 2009. ALL credentialed economists agree that the Stimulus Bill was 1/2 the size it should have been. (12) The "country" is broke (and I'm glad you characterized it that way) because that's exactly what the republicans want. That is the republican plan, to bankrupt the country so that there is no power or resources to stop the corporatocracy. With the help of their republican pimps, the corporatocracy has taken over the entire government, every branch, at every level. All of the laws and regulations are written by the lawyers of the corporatocracy, for their benefit. (13) Since the puppet pimp, Ronald Reagan, was elected, and his fascist, fraudulent "trickle down" policies were implemented, the wealth and quality of life of the middle class has steadily declined, and the wealth of the top 1/10 of 1% has grown exponentially. Thanks to voodoo Reaganomics, ECONOMIC INEQUALITY BETWEEN THE CORPORATE ELITE AND THE MIDDLE CLASS IS AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL SINCE 1928! (14) As has been proven, over, and over, and over again, right under 777Drum's nose, FREE MARKET CAPITALISM DOESN'T WORK! It is a scam, a lie, a fraud. (15) The American medical system is a disgrace! American medicine costs 1/5th of the GDP. That is, 1 out of every 5 dollars spent in America, is for medical care. And what do with get for this investment? (a) Medical care as a whole is the 3rd leading cause of death in America behind only heart attacks and cancer. (b) Adverse reactions to FDA approved drugs, alone, are the 4th leading cause of death. (c) Medical malpractice, alone, is the 6th leading cause of death. (d) The U.S. ranks 37th in life expectancy and infant mortality among industrialized nations. (e) Medical bills are the leading cause of personal bankruptcy in the U.S., more than all other causes combined. BUT, TEABAGGING WINGNUTS LIKE 777DRUM DON'T WANT TO CHANGE ANYTHING. THEY DON'T WANT SAFE AFFORDABLE MEDICINE, THAT WOULD IMPINGE ON THEIR FREEEEEEDOMMM! IDIOT! OH WAIT!!! I see 777Drum is from Texas. Well, it all makes perfect sense now! |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Move to Venezeula! Christ, you're dilusional. Carter! You tout Carter! That's funny. Yes, and the republicans control the media! I've seldom seen any liberal even say that! What happened to you, brain injury? |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
As an after thought, most of what you write is so stupidly fabricated BS, that you're not worthy of further communication. Get some help and try to enjoy your socialist one termer! |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
Quote: LOL! Historical facts are unrecognizable to, and irreconcilable with, the brainwashed, wingnut's belief system, spoon fed to him by the corporatist propagandist main stream media that he's addicted to! Move to Saudi Arabia, Jethro! Or better, admit yourself into the nearest booby hatch! Quote: OOOOOH! Coming from a braindead, Fox Noise junky, from Texas, that's a real zinger! |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
You should watch Fox News. Everybody else does!! You're a small minority socialist boy! And the teabaggers you fear will clean house very soon! Hey make some more stuff up, it's pretty funny! What are you a college kid from Berkley or a postal worker? |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
Quote: (1) Fox Noise is 100% republican propaganda for pea brains. Every word uttered on Fox Noise is either an outright lie, or based on a false premise, express or implied. You, being a stinkpublican from Texas, it comes as no surprise that in your small world everyone watches Fox Noise. In the reality based world, all of the broadcast network news shows have a bigger viewer share than Fox Noise. But, so what? Fox, ABC, NBC, CBS are all owned and controlled by the fascist, republican, corporatocracy. (2) It also comes as no surprise that a primitive, scared, small minded, tribalistic, constupidive would find comfort in being a part of what he (erroneously) perceives to be the majority. Constupidives follow the heard. Liberals gifted with the capacity for independent, critical thinking follow the truth. That's one of the things that makes us liberals. So far, you haven't demonstrated the capacity for independent, critical thinking. Having said all that, in the reality based world, Democrats outnumber Shitpublicans, and liberals outnumber constupidives. (3) I fear nothing. Certainly not primitive, superstitious, tribalistic, evolutionarily challenged monkeys better known as tea baggers. PS: Actually, I do fear something. I fear constupidive, scumpublican police. That's why I am a strong supporter of that interpretation of the 2nd Amendment which holds that it protects a citizen's right to own weapons and to use deadly force in self defense. In my opinion, an armed citizenry is probably the strongest deterrent to the abuses of bad cops. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Yes, the republicans own and run everything. The democratic controlled senate and congress are really all republicans just pretending to be democrats. Wow, you figured it out! Where did you learn that? Damn you've been watching MSNBC! One of the 5 people that watch! News Flash socialist boy - Teabagers, conservatives & republicans totally out number the socialists! Ya see, if ya started watching Fox news you might learn something! You're 22% and your man child is crashing and burning. His arrogance and socialist nature is great! It woke the teabaggers up and will in turn sink your cess pool party of socialist idiots. It's a beautiful thing! By the way, I'm not from Texas nor am I a republican. Look to Greece to see how your principals work out! To recapp - If you're a socialist liberal you are flat out stupid. You're dumb..You are a simpleton. You are likely to have a government job, union job, are lazy or supported by your parents. Which one are you? |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
Quote: LOL! Hey, Einstein, would this be the same 22% that elected a black President, and Democratic majorities in the House and Senate? Yup, they sure know their stuff over at Fox Noise! Way to think this through before making a public constupidive outta yourself, again! |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Hardly a landslide. And the independents that bought into his BS realize they were had. I guess they were watching anything but Fox. The socialist got nothing but passes from the liberal media. Every liberal does. The majority of America is center right and now more than ever. Liberals are 22% that is fact. The man child is a socialist. A sleasy lawyer that isn't qualified to run a stop and go. Now that this is clear for all to see, he's finished as is your party of cess pool socialists. The teabags you fear, and trust me, you do fear them as you fear Palin (which is just bizarre) are getting ready to clean house. At least Clinton was politically savvy, your moron is sinking your socialist party! Ah self love and arrogance are such stumbling blocks. Yeah! Bring on that hope and change! Hey if not venezeula why not move to Greece? You got nothing! |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
Quote: Fox Noise: "Liberals are 22%. That's a fact. Obama is a socialist." 777Dumb: "Squawk, liberals are 22%, that's a fact, squawk. Obama is a socialist, squawk." Hey 777Dumb, since you hate government so much, why don't you move to Saudi Arabia. No government there, just a royal family who makes it up as they go along, just like your buddy in stupidity, Bush. Or better, move to Somalia. No government there, either. You'd love it there. Seriously, think of all the freeeedommm you could have in Somalia. And, don't let the door hitcha where evolution splitcha! |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Bush...bush...bush....yawn.....get over it man....he's gone By the way I was never a Bush fan, I think he was terrible and the war was a mistake. No,unlike you I am not a fan of big government. They create nothing but waste and steal the working people's money. It really doesn't matter anymore, the country is broke. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
Quote: I'll respond when I have more time. Until then, you'll just have to suffer in baited anticipation. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
I will also add b4 I leave today - That I believe at least 90% of all elected officials are corrupt. Bought and paid for. Government for sale. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
Quote: Yet, you voted for Bush/Cheney, twice! Once, after he started a fraudulent, criminal war for profit. And you continue to defend him now. So, which is it, are you a liar or a fool? As I exhaustively explained above, Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and their entire administration are both domestic and international criminals. I'll get over it when justice is served - when they're hanging by their necks from a very tall tree. Quote: Again, you are either a liar or a fool. YOU ARE A FAN OF BIG GOVERNMENT! You proved it with your vote, at least twice. The difference between you and I is what we think the legitimate role of government should be. You see the role of government as an oppressor, a war state and a police state. You think the role of government is to invade foreign countries, under false pretences, to steal their resources, for the benefit of giant multinational corporations which have no loyalty to America whatsoever. You support an American military budget that exceeds the military budget of all other nations of the world combined. You think the role of government is to illegally spy on its citizens. You think the role of government is to incarcerate citizens for exercising their liberty when that conduct does not comport with your notion of religious morality. You think the role of government is to defend itself at the expense of the personal liberty of its citizens. You think the role of government is to protect the profits of giant multinational corporations against the insterests of public health, safety and welfare. You have proven your position by your vote. I think the role of government it to serve the public. The role of government is to protect the interests of public health, safety, welfare and liberty against the abuses of commerce, and to protect personal liberty at the expense of the government. Those are policy choices that have to be elected by our representatives. You hate the government because you are brainwashed by the relentles, ubiquitous propaganda of the corporatist, fascist owned main stream media to do so. The corporatists have a monumental financial interst to lie to you - to obtain your compliance in neutering the governments power to regulate them for your protection. You have no idea in how many ways the government protects you from the abuses of commercial exploitation. It comes as no surprise to me that teabagging, wingnut, Fox Noise junkies are oblvious to the essential role of government in their lives. Here is a very short list of the benefits of government in a constitutional democracy: - Your food is safe to eat and affordable, - Your water is safe to drink and affordable, - Your electric power is reliable, safe and affordable (ask a Californian how free market capitalist utilities is working out for them), - Your car is safe to drive, - All of the products you buy must pass safety regulations, and are warranteed against defects (unless they are imported from China which has no such safety regulatory system, hmmmm), - Your streets are safe to drive on, - The contractor who built your house is licensed and competent, - Your house and the structures you work in and do business in are safe to inhabit, - The medicines you take are safe and effective, - The doctor who treats you is licensed and competent, - The lawyer who represents you is licensed and competent, (But, you would prefer to leave these protections to the forces of free market capitalism, right). - The bank where you keep your money is solvent and, if not, your deposits are insured, - The air you breath and ground water are clean (or they would be, but for 8 years of corrupt Bush/Cheney energy policies), - The public school system is the envy of the world (despite 30 years of republican efforts to dismantle it), and is the primary factor in creating the largest, most economically powerful middle class in history (despite republican efforts to dismantle the middle class in order to create domestic slave labor for commerce), - Laborers have a right to combine and force commerce to bargain with them as a group, another major factor in the creation of the American middle class (in the past 30 years, republicans have succeeded in largely dismantling organized labor), - Child labor is prohibited (what an infringement on your freedom, right, 777Dumb?), - You can send a letter from Key West to Seattle for $0.44, and know it will arrive, - Prior to the corruption of the government by the international banks, it was the crime of usury in all 50 states to charge exhorbitant interest rates (but, thanks to the republicans, all such state laws that criminalized usury are now preempted by federal law that affords no such consumer protection), - Giant, multinational corporations are forbidden from combining and monopolizing a market, killing competition, and exploiting consumers, - Descrimination in employment on the basis of race, religion, ethnicity, gender, age and disability is prohibited (ah, 777Dumb longs for the good ol' days), - If you have a dispute with your neighbor, or with General Electric, you have a court system in which you can force them to answer your allegations of wrongdoing on a level playing field rather than resort to violence, or have no remedy at all (naturally, 777Dumb would prefer the more traditional form of dispute resolution - dueling). Those are just the tip of the iceberg of all of the benefits the government provides to its citizens that wingnuts and teabaggers are utterly oblivious to. As for the country being broke, that is the plan of, and the doing of, the republicans, who have intentionally, purposefully run the government into the ground, for the benefit of giant multinational corporations who don't want to be regulated - the republicans you voted for, again and again. Quote: More accurately, 100% of the republicans are corrupt and about 50% of the democrats are corrupt. But, you fail to close the circle. WHO CURRUPTS THE GOVERNMENT - COMMERCE! The republicans are the wholy owned subsidiary of the giant, multinational, corporations. The republicans have literally sold the government to the giant, multinational corporations which have no loyalty to America and whose only interest is profit. It started with the republican "K Street Project" (look it up). The nail in the coffin was the Citizens United v. FEC case, in which the republican majority of the USSC opened the door to unlimited corporatist, fascist corruption and influence over the government. AND YOU VOTED FOR ALL OF THIS! "The selfish spirit of commerce knows no country and feels no passion or principle but that of gain." -- Thomas Jefferson "Those who cannot remember the past are doomed to repeate it." -- George Santayana Quote: I had to come back to this one. Of all of your idiotic comments, this has to be the dumbest. If reasonably intelligent informed Americans know nothing about republicans, they certainly know that the republicans are fiscally incompetent and are the epitome of the culture of corruption, just like Greece. You'll love Greece. It's everything you voted for here in America. Bon voyage! And, BTW, I've written these comments for the benefit of others who may read them. Based on your incapacity for responding substantively to an argument, I fully expect that you will, again, change the subject by respond to this by, again, parrotting the same inane Fox Noise talking points. Why don't you save the bandwidth. We can always scroll up, if we have nothing else to do. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Yes, let's do away with all commerce! Brilliant! Halliburton, bush and chaney bla bla bla.... How warped are you? Unions, entitlement programs, foreign wars and creeping socialism have destroyed this country finacially. Barney Frank, Pelosi, Dodd and company should be in prison. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Once again, (for about the 5th time in a row), you change the subject, ingore all of my points and, like the trained seal you are, in typical knee jerk, conservative fashion, you parrot Fox Noise propaganda without any basis in fact or logic! Clearly, you have absolutely nothing to add to the discourse! You are incapable of independent critical thinking! You should apologize to God for wasting a human existence on you! |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Corruption: It's the republicans, stupid! http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/feds-tomato-broker-took-payoffs-buy-t Feds: Tomato Broker Took Payoffs to Buy Tainted Food By Susie Madrak Thursday Feb 25, 2010 7:00pm At the very least, we should be able to count on the integrity of our food supply. But we can't. Between corrupt practices like this and the gutting of the FDA during the Bush years, every time we put something into our mouths that wasn't grown and bought locally, we're taking a chance: Robert Watson, a top ingredient buyer for Kraft Foods, needed $20,000 to pay his taxes. So he called a broker for a California tomato processor that for years had been paying him bribes to get its products into Kraft’s plants. [...] Over the last 14 months, Mr. Watson and three other purchasing managers, at Frito-Lay, Safeway and B&G Foods, have pleaded guilty to taking bribes. Five people connected to one of the nation’s largest tomato processors, SK Foods, have also admitted taking part in the scheme. Now, federal prosecutors in California have taken aim at the owner of SK Foods, who they say spearheaded the far-reaching plot. The man, Frederick Scott Salyer, was arrested at Kennedy Airport in New York City on Feb. 4 after getting off a flight from Switzerland. He was indicted last week on racketeering, fraud and obstruction of justice charges. The scheme, as laid out by federal prosecutors, has two parts. Officials say that Mr. Salyer and others at SK Foods greased the palms of a handful of corporate buyers in exchange for lucrative contracts and confidential information on bids submitted by competitors. This most likely drove up ingredient prices for the big food companies. In addition, prosecutors say that for years, SK Foods shipped its customers millions of pounds of bulk tomato paste and puree that fell short of basic quality standards — with falsified documentation to mask the problems. Often that meant mold counts so high the sale should have been prohibited under federal law; at other times it involved breaching specifications in the sales contracts, such as acidity levels or the age of the product. Tags: food supply Print. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Bite me chump! You're dillusional. And you should move to Greece! Bask in the socialism you crave. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
Quote: Bite me chump? Are you 14? You have absolutely nothing to add to the discourse! You are incapable of independent critical thinking! You are a squawking parrot of Fox Noise propaganda. You should apologize to God for wasting a human existence on you! You should move to Greece. You'll fit right in with the republican style fiscal incompetence and corruption. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Canadians respond to loss to U.S. in Olympic hockey: http://crooksandliars.com/bluegal/open-thread-352 |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Yes, Bite me chump! You are dillusional. Now you blame Greece's problems on their republican style of government! You are just a total moron. A total idiot. Get some help. And quit bringing God into this! WTF? God?? |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
Quote: You're an idiot! You have absolutely nothing to add to the discourse! You are incapable of independent critical thinking! You are a squawking parrot of Fox Noise propaganda. You should apologize to God for wasting a human existence on you! You should move to Greece. You'll fit right in with the republican style fiscal incompetence and corruption. Idiot! |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Hmmmmm.....God again....WTF??? We do have common ground though..We both believe that each other are Idiots! We both like good quality High Energy fusion and we both get pleasure from striking drums and cymbals! That might be it. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
Quote: You're not competent to have an opinion about someone else's intellect. See "You're an idiot" ibid. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Your girl is on Leno tonight! |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Leno sucks! Why would anyone watch that crap when Letterman is on! |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Letterman? An angry old horn dog who's just not funny! Your girl is going to be on Leno! Aren't you one of those Falin Palin fans? |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
ooops...letterman is having Romney on...looks like you're screwed! |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
You're not thinking clearly. Letterman puts on wingnuts like O'Reilly and Romney to make them look like the half-wit monkeys that they are! I love it! |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Here's what we have to look forward to http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.2d463dc1ea6baf7651f3f5c33b7f3824.a51&show_article=1 |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
Quote: Breitbart? The scumpublican who hired O'keefe and Giles to make a fraudulent video pretending to be a pimp and whore going to Acorn for advice. Now there's a reliable source for you! Breitbart is a hot, steaming pile of human excriment who needs someone to put a hole in his fat mouth! As for what we have to look forward to, the world wide depression is, once again, the result of right wing, corporatist, fascism, beginning with the puppet pimp Ronald Reagan. The fraud of free market capitalism has be laid bare for the world to see, that is, those not too brainwashed to see. It took 30 years of corporatist fascism to destroy the world economy, it will take 30 years to undo the damage! 1 down, 29 to go! Now, it's time for the billionaire bankers to pay their fair share in taxes, balance the budget and give the middle class a break. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Sorry to break the flow, as it were. I was wondering why Americans seem so opposed to the healthcare plan suggested by el Presidente? Surely free/subsidised healthcare would be a blessing for those too poor to afford insurance? |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Breitbart? The scumpublican who hired O'keefe and Giles to make a fraudulent video pretending to be a pimp and whore going to Acorn for advice. Now there's a reliable source for you! Breitbart is a hot, steaming pile of human excriment who needs someone to put a hole in his fat mouth! As for what we have to look forward to, the world wide depression is, once again, the result of right wing, corporatist, fascism, beginning with the puppet pimp Ronald Reagan. The fraud of free market capitalism has be laid bare for the world to see, that is, those not too brainwashed to see. It took 30 years of corporatist fascism to destroy the world economy, it will take 30 years to undo the damage! 1 down, 29 to go! Now, it's time for the billionaire bankers to pay their fair share in taxes, balance the budget and give the middle class a break. Both parties are to blame, you give bawny fwank, cwis dod a pass? That's funny...can you say fannie may freedy mac...crooked as the day is long....frank and dodd are their biggest cheer leaders... hey look more about how socialism doesn't work and what it leads to on your rag msnbc! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35685028/ns/business-world_business/ |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
Quote: Because the U.S. is broke for one thing. Health care is not a right...it is a service...why should it be free...do you work for free? Socialized medicine doesn't work. Ask the canadians. They draw lottery numbers to see who even gets an appointment with a doctor. a good example of how it financially doesn't work is medicare and medicade...totally broke. Now the socialists here want to expand the same thing that doesn't work to millions more. Do the math, count the doctors...there's no money etc.. Health care is a service and should not become an entitlement. It's never free anyway....big guv just bleeds the people for more taxes. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Wow. Socialized medicine in the U.K. What a great thing. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...-beg-water.html |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
I know it's never free - taxes pay for a lot of things, we seem to be taxed on about 30% of our income in NZ, but doctor's visits only cost $15, and for children it's free. Of course the doctors' salaries are paid for by the government, no-one would work for free! Our Ambulance service is basically a charity, but there is only one type and they serve their communities, regardless of insurance. The other services (fire/police) are government funded. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
Quote: Again, you have no idea what you're talking about. NONE! No, both parties are not to blame. The fascist, corporatocracy is to blame. And the the GOP is a wholly owned subsidiary of the corporatocracy. Did you see Barney Frank or Chris Dodd's signature on the Gramm, Leach, Blyley Act? That was the single most important factor in the banking collapse. But, being a Fox Noise junky, you wouldn't know anything about that. BTW, NBC is owned by the far right wing, fascist General Electric. Ask Phil Dohanue or James Grodin about GE. Just because MSNBC has 2 liberals on it doesn't make it a liberal network. It's still a corporatist, fascist, MSM, network, like ABC, CBS, FOX, CNN, et al. As for FNMA and FDMC, again, you have no idea what you're talking about. They are mortgage securitizing entities. (Since you probably don't know what that means, look it up). They don't promulgate (look that up too), laws or regulations, they don't originate loans. They didn't deregulate the mortgage market, they didn't defraud mortgagors. The world wide economic collapse was due, IN IT'S ENTIRETY on corporatist, fascist, republican deregulation beginning with the brain dead, puppet pimp, Ronald "The Brain Stem" Reagan and his idiotic "trickle down economic" incompetence. Does any bipedal organism have any doubt that Reagan was suffering from Alzheimers during his presidency? No surprise that he was a hero to constupidives. Anyone with two neurons between their ears to rub together, which excludes all conservatives, knows that "free market capitalism" works only for the corporatocracy. The rest of the world gets screwed. History has proven that there are no exceptions, it happens every time. "Those who cannot remember the past are doomed to repeat it." -- George Santayana |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
Quote:Quote: Again, you have no idea what you're talking about. One of the reasons that the government is in such a deficit position is because THE COST OF MEDICINE AND MEDICAL INSURANCE IS TOO DAMN HIGH! America is being robbed, blackmailed by the medical and medical insurance industries. The tired, idiotic, corporatist squawking point parroted by brainless conservative morons - that medicine isn't a right, is IRRELEVANT. Who cares if it's a right or not? The point is that AMERICANS HAVE AN ABSOLUTE RIGHT TO COLLECTIVELY CREATE A MEDICAL SYSTEM THAT DELIVERS SAFER AND MORE EFFECTIVE MEDICAL CARE AT A REASONABLE PRICE, YOU DUMBASS! That whole premise scares the s--t out of the corporatist scum and their shitpublican enablers. Imagine, the complete removal of the wretched, stinking, stench of business from medical care. It's like a breath of fresh air. The rest of the industrialized world - every single industrialized country but the U.S. - has already proven WITH ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY that socilized medical insurance (ie: Canada), and socilized medicine (ie: England), deliver safer and more effective medicine, at a much lower cost, than profit driven Wall Street Care. PERIOD! |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Nice socialist talking points! You're the dumbass. The country is broke fool. Do you understand that? Do you get it? There's no money. Oh, wait lets get it from the rich and evil corporations....you're a idiot. An Obama stool grooming idiot. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Okay..this is my last post. My reply is just to read what you wrote. Sorry, you're just too stupid to attempt to converse with. Jesus..all democrats good all repubs evil...you're such a fool...a useful idiot. Again, you have no idea what you're talking about. NONE! No, both parties are not to blame. The fascist, corporatocracy is to blame. And the the GOP is a wholly owned subsidiary of the corporatocracy. Did you see Barney Frank or Chris Dodd's signature on the Gramm, Leach, Blyley Act? That was the single most important factor in the banking collapse. But, being a Fox Noise junky, you wouldn't know anything about that. BTW, NBC is owned by the far right wing, fascist General Electric. Ask Phil Dohanue or James Grodin about GE. Just because MSNBC has 2 liberals on it doesn't make it a liberal network. It's still a corporatist, fascist, MSM, network, like ABC, CBS, FOX, CNN, et al. As for FNMA and FDMC, again, you have no idea what you're talking about. They are mortgage securitizing entities. (Since you probably don't know what that means, look it up). They don't promulgate (look that up too), laws or regulations, they don't originate loans. They didn't deregulate the mortgage market, they didn't defraud mortgagors. The world wide economic collapse was due, IN IT'S ENTIRETY on corporatist, fascist, republican deregulation beginning with the brain dead, puppet pimp, Ronald "The Brain Stem" Reagan and his idiotic "trickle down economic" incompetence. Does any bipedal organism have any doubt that Reagan was suffering from Alzheimers during his presidency? No surprise that he was a hero to constupidives. Anyone with two neurons between their ears to rub together, which excludes all conservatives, knows that "free market capitalism" works only for the corporatocracy. The rest of the world gets screwed. History has proven that there are no exceptions, it happens every time. "Those who cannot remember the past are doomed to repeat it." -- George Santayana |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
Quote: This, ladies and gentlemen, this is the calling card of the prototypical, brainwashed, conservative - he has never had an original thought, he is capable only of parroting the propaganda of the corporatocracy, and when none is available for the moment, he resorts to plagiarizing his critics ideas against them. Not a single original, substantive idea, NOT ONE! It's a familiar, ubiquitous pattern. Quote: The truth to a conservative is like water to the Wicked Witch of the West - I'm melting! Your last post? HA! Well, once again, thanks for parroting more plagiarized corporatist, fascist propaganda. What would the world do without you to perpetuate the misinformation and disinformation of the corporate elite. Quote: Sure you are! Free to be a battery in the matrix! Free to be a "human resource" for the corporatocracy. Free to have your phone and internet connection monitored by BIG GOVERNLMENT! Free to pay 1/5th of your gross earnings for medicine. Free to be strip searched in an airport. Free to pay 30% interest on your credit card. Free to buy defective and dangerous products with no legal recourse. The list goes on and on. What a proud conservative you must be. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Can you follow a thought? I am not for big government. I am for smaller government. Unlike you I do not place any trust in our government. It is corrupt and can't intelligently run anything. Again...socialists (the useful idiots) are brain dead. All the politicians are of the same ilk. Wake up corporate dillusional idiot. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Are you an Alex Jones guy? What the hell are you? Your posts make no sense at all. How do you define yourself? Socialist? Bigger government cradle to grave etc..guy? |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
Quote: Wait, I thought your last post was your last post. Bahahahahaha . . . . Yes, YOU support big government. YOU put your trust in government - but only as a police state. You are too brainwashed by the corporatist, fascist, main stream media to support government that actually serves the people. You'd rather pay monopolistic prices for your services. You are so malinformed you think MSNBC is a liberal network. You have no idea what a liberal is. You know only what is spoon fed to you by the corporatist propagandist main stream media. Quote: With every post you paint yourself into a smaller corner of irrationality and delusion. What's the matter, I don't fit into one of the false "catagories" that Fox Noise, Breitbart, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly or some other corporatist, propagandist mouthpiece has constructed for you? My posts make perfect sense to anyone capable of independent, critical thinking. Again, it comes as no surprise that a Fox Noise junky, who is capable of no more than parroting phoney, idiotic, Fox Noise squawking points (like "cradle to grave"), would be confused by seamless logic, reason and (GASP) a sense of equity and fairness. Thank you for confirming, once again, that conservatives are doomed to be consumed by evolution. The sooner the better. You should appologize to God for wasting the brain he gave you. PS: Notice this 777Dumb! Whereas your words are verbatim plagiarizm of the corporatist propagandists, my words are my original thoughts. You won't find them in the media. I take what I find and apply rigorous analysis to it before I express an opinion about it. You, on the other hand, are a popinjay for the corporatocracy. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Yes, I guess you're too deep to define yourself. What little we have learned about you from your posts. Some we know. All republicans are bad and the cause of every problem. Capitalism is bad and all corporations are evil. Fear of police state (alex jones?) from big government you claim I want. Are you a 911 was an inside job guy as well? Again, define yourself and or your perfect political structure if you could have it. Come on free thinker, enlighten us. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
Quote: There is no enlightening you. Your questions have already been answered. You're just not educable. You haven't written a single substantive comment to any one of my posts. NOT ONE. Nor, after your first few responses, did I expect any. Reality, logic, reason, substantive arguement are all irrelevant to you. Your cognition is circumscribed by your vestigial, primitive, tribalistic, survival instincts which limit your discourse to desperately trying to figure out who is in your tribe, and you is not, and parroting laughably idiotic corporatist talking points, designed by your manipulators, to acheieve the same end. You accept as true, and limit your exposure to, anything that serves to perpetuate your tribalistic instincts without further inquiry. That's why hate, bigotry and wedge issues are so effective with conservatives. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Interesting. You're afraid to define yourself. By the way, I'm not a conservative. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
Quote: Wrong again, on both counts. My prior substantive posts speak for themselves. And, you are a confessed, confirmed Fox Noise junky, tea bagging, government hating, Breitbart citing, wingnut. That issue is foreclosed. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Wrong again, on both counts. My prior substantive posts speak for themselves. And, you are a confessed, confirmed Fox Noise junky, tea bagging, government hating, Breitbart citing, wingnut. That issue is foreclosed. Yes Your prior posts so show you to be a very angry liberal. You should start watching fox news! Most people do, that's why they are the #1 cable news network. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
Quote: Yes Your prior posts so show you to be a very angry liberal. You should start watching fox news! Most people do, that's why they are the #1 cable news network. I would sooner stick a hot poker in my eye. But, thanks for confirming that your prior post was a lie. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Watching Fox news makes one a liar? That's crazy talk. Besides, It looks like you watch O'reilly.....Popinjay? There was another one you used as well. Hmmm. two words O'reilly uses in his vocab quiz! Busted! |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
Quote: Typical goposaur tactic. You can't argue against the truth so you construct a strawman to argue against. Pathetic! 1) Being a Fox Noise junky makes you an idiot. Repeating the lies you hear on Fox Noise makes you a liar. 2) Bill O'Reilly has never used the word "popinjay," but if he did, he doesn't know what it means because he's too intellectually incurious to look it up. BTW, I learned the word from George Gallaway, MP, when he drilled wingnut Senator, Norm Coleman (R-MN), a new A-H on the floor of the Senate over Coleman's support of Bush/Cheney's fraudulent Iraq War. Not that I like Gallaway, I just thought it was great sport to see a wingnut, republican, ass wipe getting his fascist ass handed to him by a foreigner. Check out some highlights here, you Fox Noise junky, wingnut: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrdFFCnYtbk Here's more comprehensive coverage for those with a longer attention span than a Fox Noise Junky, wingnut. Grab a chair and some popcorn: Part 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R31WCX_YoDE&feature=related Part 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCL-IL5yvr8&feature=related Part 3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ym_fFjLlHz4&feature=related Part 4 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbuXfzSkB3A&feature=related Part 5 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuCEfYAx4A0&feature=related Part 6 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dh6ZItn5ykY&feature=related |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
My my, hit a nerve did I? O'reilly has featured both words in his words to learn segment as I suspect you well know. Don't worry, your secret is safe. Most liberals watch Fox news anyway! The far left's hatred of Fox is pretty weird. They have a ton of regular liberals on the opinion shows every night. Your pitfall is your blind hatred of the right. What you fail to realize is that they are all of the same ilk. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
So George Gallowy is your hero! Sad...but not surprising. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
Quote: Quote: More changes of subject from 777Dumb! More lies from 777Dumb! More waste of bandwidth from 777Dumb! 777Dumb's got nothing! He's even given up on parroting the same Fox Noise squawking points that can be seen randomely scattered throughout his posts above. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz . . . . |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Got Nothing! Funny. You've been busted Oreilly watcher! |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
Quote: You got nothing! You jumped the shark after your first post! Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz . . . . |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Teabagging? I object to the misuse of my user name. For the record I have never been a member of the Teaparty... and to 'teabag' is not a verb! BTW - What a flame war. Those on the extreme left and extreme right are often not willing to listen to anything that differs from their narrowly defined world view. 'I know what I like and I like what I know'. I'm not stepping into this name-calling marathon - other than to say, that based on world history and societies that are successful, the answer lies in the middle - a mix of capitalism and socialism. Extremes on either side are either poverty stricken police states or basketcase nanny states.. and sometimes both! Just be glad we live in a free society where differing opinions are tolerated.. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
Quote: Actually, "teabagging" is a verb: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQjPoiVPf2Y&feature=related |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Haha! Now I feel more virile.. okay - teabag away! |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
http://www.sons-of-liberty.net/ some interesting documentaries ... conspiracy stuff is fun |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
Quote: In the reality based world, the root of both the words liberty and liberal is l. "liber" which is latin for freedom! The "sons of liberty" is a sham propagandist front for the corporatocracy whose purpose is to prey upon the weak and stupid by appealing to their primitive, superstitious, tribalistic, bigotry, in order to influence them to vote and act against their own best interest. They are fugitives from evolution. Think Jerry Jones and Kool-Aid. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
A man named Jerry Jones is the owner of the Dallas Cowboys football team. Are you perhaps referring to the Reverend Jim Jones, who in 1978 forced his followers to commit suicide by drinking poisoned Kool Aid? |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
Quote: Yes, good point. But after what Jerry Jones did to Jimmy Johnson, well, I'm of the belief that Jerry Jones is capable of anything. And, you'll note that Jim Jones and Jerry Jones have never been seen together. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
This topic has certainly been one of the most popular in this "Whatever" section of the Forum. Unfortunately, once it degrades into mere flaming it no longer serves any useful purpose! In the future, please attempt to offer your own viewpoints while having a constructive conversation - it may be difficult be it IS possible! - without flaming each other, which is simply a waste of everyone's time. I will keep this thread open, for now, in the hopes that you will all be able to share your opinions with each other minus the outright flaming. If it continues, this thread will be closed. Thank you for, hopefully, understanding!
|
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
I vote delete. I regret responding. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
Quote: Sure you do! That's why you've hijacked 2 other threads and started a 3rd to continue your right wing blather! |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Right Wing? How much weed do you smoke? I'm all about social justice! Where's my bailout? You've shown yourself to be an operative for the corporatocracy! A shill for the new world order. Come clean little man. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
Quote: LMAO! No matter how many times you declare that you're done, it never turns out to be true. Social justice? For who? Goldman Sachs? Oh, wait, pudgy white little piggies? Yes! You're a pathological liar! Right wing indeed! You're so far right, you have to look left to see the right. |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Again playing the race card I see! Your boyfriend is Goldman's bitch! Wake up shill and join us. The Kenyan is no better than Bush. He's the ultimate sleeper cell terrorist! Social justice for all. Free stuff!! |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
Quote: LMAO! You're a just a small, scared, white, bigot, admit it. Further, you support everything that Goldman Sachs has done. You voted for free market capitalism. You voted for Goldman Sachs. You voted for the Great Republican Depression and stock market crash of 2008. Now, be a man and take responsibility for what you've done. I won't hold my breath. "Social justice?" Oh, I get it, you used that as a pejoriative. "Free stuff?" Put down the coolaid, wingnut! |
||||||||
|
|
|||||||
|
Again with the name calling! Bush and the Kenyan (his wife says kenya is his home country) are both in bed with Goldman! They take their money and do their bidding. And nobody is even wearing Sachs! Wake up you damaged little progressive! Watch the film and report back. |