James Walker
Tiger Talk Pro
Reged: Mar 18 2002
Posts: 1283
Loc: Connecticut
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The only problem with pre-dampened heads is, that's the sound you're stuck with. There's no quick way to "open up" a drum that has an Evans HD Dry on it. However, I can easily get a similar sound from a drum with a single-ply head, by putting an O-ring on it.
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TS
Tiger Talk Pro
Reged: Jan 25 2006
Posts: 364
Loc: Vermont
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I would do that, except my drums are too bright and harsh opened up with a single ply head. When I move to a maple or Mapex Saturn, that won't be the case. I can forsee in that case going to single ply/O-ring type setup.
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gregg terrell
Tiger Talk Trainee
Reged: Feb 24 2006
Posts: 30
Loc: texas
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i hate the way drums sounded in the 70,s. i play a 16x16 floor tom.which means the bottom head is less than 1 ft. from the floor, which causes the drum to ring.a little tape on the edge and problem solve. sometimes on the bottom head instead. besides, who really cares if there is tape residue on the head anyway.
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James Walker
Tiger Talk Pro
Reged: Mar 18 2002
Posts: 1283
Loc: Connecticut
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quote:
Originally posted by TS:
I would do that, except my drums are too bright and harsh opened up with a single ply head.
I can relate to that - I had a Yamaha COS snare that, typical of many low-to-intermediate-level steel snares, was too bright for my tastes, but with an HD Dry head, it gave me that prototypical '80s Gadd snare sound (vis a vis his recordings with Paul Simon, Grover Washington Jr., et al). The only issue was, it made the drum a "one trick pony" (no pun intended!) - but I didn't have any success with any other head/tuning combinations, so there wasn't any real need to have the option to go with a less muffled sound.
However, I was simply disagreeing with the idea that, given the availability of pre-muffled heads, that this makes other muffling techniques unnecessary.
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jmfdrums
Tiger Talk Pro
Reged: Apr 11 2005
Posts: 237
Loc: Illinois
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quote:
Originally posted by Foursticks:
So I'm wondering: With all of this talk about the need to kill overtones and ringing, the debate over moongel or studio rings vs. duct tape, etc.... why don't more drum manufacturers build their drums with internal mufflers, like the old Ludwig Supraphonic and Acrolite snares? Obviously there's a need for some kind of muffling on most drums, so why not??
And while I'm on the subject, has anyone tried any of those mufflers that clip on to the rims? Anyone tried to install an after market internal muffler?
O-Ring and moongel would be out of business. Also, the internal mufflers I had in a set of Pearls started rattling after a few years and the only way to stop that was by either taping or removing them...I removed them and started using the external mufflers. They actually worked well for large toms (14" and bigger), but they were way too much for the smaller toms.
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TS
Tiger Talk Pro
Reged: Jan 25 2006
Posts: 364
Loc: Vermont
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There is a big difference between the 70's muffled sound and what we are after. Right now, EC'2's with genera glass give my kit plenty of sustain, but trim off that annoying initial spurious over-ring.
In the 70's-early 80's, the bottom head was removed, and the top head heavily muffled. So not only was sustain removed, but all initial tone was as well. The last recording that I liked that sounded like that was Liberty Devitto on Billy Joel's glass houses. It was all punch and no sustain.
Drummers have become more sophisticated in terms of tonality since then, and things are coming full circle. Now it's almost as if the ideal sound we are after is similar to the 60's big band sound (warm and open) or the Zep sound (big and open).
Ether way, there must be a balance of depth, sustain and tonality with only small bits of control.
As far as two ply on snare drums: I try to avoid that at all cost. I just don't like de-sensitizing the snare.
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tookstr
Tiger Talk Pro
Reged: Jan 16 2006
Posts: 246
Loc: MN
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**************************************************
jesuslovesyou wrote:
“I think I know why tape is applied to the drumhead but I want to confirm with you experienced
folks.”
**************************************************
Drum muffling came about because of the limitations of the recording equipment of the
past. Most drummers hated having to put their wallets on the snare or stick blankets in
the kick. The warm big band drum sound that TS talked about is what most wanted to
record but with four track half inch recorders (at best) it just wasn’t possible. I remember
trying to pump up the bass and kick in a song I recorded back then only to have it rolled
off during mastering so the needle on the vinyl pressing machine wouldn’t jump.
Taping and muffling became extreme when a bunch of long haired guys from England
put out an album about lonely hearts that featured stereo drums. The only way to do this
then was to isolate the drum sounds so one mike wouldn’t bleed into another. Stopping
all resonance was usually the way this was done. I disliked that “put” “put” cardboard
sound too but it wasn’t my choice. If I wanted the work I did what the producers said.
After Woodstock big sound systems started appearing. Now the drums could be miked
live and the same muting principles used in the studio were applied. By todays standard
the PAs of the day really sucked. In fact any PA you can pick up at Guitar Center for a
little over a grand will be better than any system the Beatles ever used. It took a lot of
work to get a good drum sound out of those dinosaur systems and just like recording,
muting and isolation of sounds was the accepted way to do it.
Digital recording with the amazing dynamic range and the ability to actually record above
and below human hearing finally allowed the sound of an open drum set to be recorded.
The same is true of live systems. New types of drum mikes and subwoofers now allow
the real sound of a drum set to get to the audience.
It has been full circle. I’m now playing a kit that looks and sounds very much like the
one I started out on in the sixties. (One just like my first set is on Ebay right now
for $5,000.00.) I really wish I'd kept some of that gear.
I hope this history as I remember it helped put the duct tape thing into perspective.
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roger strange
Tiger Talk Pro
Reged: Dec 09 2003
Posts: 1650
Loc: Nova Scotia Canada
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tookstr: Yep that about sizes the whole tape fiasco up. I got around it in those days by using medical tape on the INSIDE of the heads where they rolled over the bearing edge.Usually four tabs about two inches long opposing each other. Also later by doing that thing I outlined with old heads, cutting out the middle of the old head and then trimmimg the balance off the hoop and fitting the internal O-ring into the new head. Worked fine and when sound cats approached me I just glared at them and told them to go listen to the sound in the 'phones. They stopped coming near me after a while. Tape?? no thank you. As for that nasty ring on the resonant head of the 16x16s? I still mount a cut out internal O-ring under those heads. Does the job well when I get a head that won't co-operate to tuning skills.
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