Alistair
Tiger Talk Pro
Reged: May 17 2006
Posts: 572
Loc: New Zealand
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ALS - I understand where you're coming from, but to me, so-called 'facts' are interpreted in different ways.
Hitler, Stalin etc all achieved things which weren't evil (e.g. Hitler built the autobahn system - probably to aid quicker deployment of his troops, but it's an achievement).
Sometimes a bit of distance from the situation helps as well (time or km's). I don't know how Bush is viewed in USA at the moment, but it's probably a different view than most others in the world have about him.
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ALS
Tiger Talk Trainee
Reged: Feb 05 2008
Posts: 26
Loc: WARREN COUNTY,NJ
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OK...FAIR ENOUGH..LET ME TRY TO SHOW YOU WHERE I'M COMING FROM. LAST YEAR,AT GIANTS STADIUM,TEAM USA PLAYED TEAM MEXICO. WHEN THE MEXICAN NATIONAL ANTHEM WAS PLAYED EVERYONE,AMERICANS INCLUDED,STOOD SILENTLY. WHEN THE AMERICAN ANTHEM WAS PLAYED THESE MEXICANS AND I MEAN MOST OF THEM BOOED AS LOUDLY AS THEY COULD. SOME OF THEM EVEN HAD SMALL AMERICAN FLAGS THAT THEY WAVED UPSIDE DOWN! DID THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO THIS ? YES..THEY DID. BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN I HAVE TO LIKE IT !!! I WOULDN'T THINK OF DOING THAT IN SOMEONE ELSES COUNTRY. BUT I HAVE TO STAND BY AND DO NOTHING WHILE THESE PIECES OF s--t TAKE EVERYTHING THIS COUNTRY HAS TO OFFER AND THEN THEY HATE US. SO GO AHEAD AND TELL ME ABOUT THEIR "FREEDOM OF WHATEVER" SOME THINGS ARE JUST WRONG.
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ALS
Tiger Talk Trainee
Reged: Feb 05 2008
Posts: 26
Loc: WARREN COUNTY,NJ
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ALISTAIR...I DIDN'T MEAN TO RANT ON YOU. ACTUALLY,YOU SEEM VERY LEVEL HEADED. IN FACT I WOULD VERY MUCH ENJOY HAVING YOU AS MY GUEST HERE ACROSS THE POND. WE COULD HAVE A FEW PINTS TOGETHER AND AS WE DRINK MORE AND MORE, WE COULD SOLVE ALL THE WORLD,S PROBLEMS. YOU'RE RIGHT, I TAKE THINGS TO PERSONALLY. BUT I'M JUST SICK AND TIRED OF PEOPLE TELLING ME THAT THE THINGS I BELIEVE IN SO DEEPLY ARE THE CAUSE OF ALL THE WORLD'S PROBLEMS WHEN ALL ALONG THEY ARE USING FALSEHOODS,INUENDOES, AND COMPLETELY ERRONEOUS FACTS AND FIGURES TO BOLSTER THEIR ACCUSATIONS. MY SISTER IN LAW IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE. SHE HATES CORPORATIONS. OK,FINE...AND SHE HATES LABOR UNIONS. BUT THE "CORPORATION" IS GIVING HER A JOB WITH A VERY GOOD SALARY AND FREE MEDICAL BENEFITS. THEN SHE TELLS ME THAT UNIONS ARE RUINING THE COUNTRY. OK,FINE. SHE HAS HER OPINION. BUT THEN SHE ALWAYS VOTES FOR THE DEMOCRATS. THE PARTY THAT CALLS ITSELF "THE FRIEND OF LABOR"! THE LABOR UNIONS ALWAYS GIVE HUGE DONATIONS TO THE DEMOCRATS.WHEN I REMIND HER OF THIS SHE HAS NOTHING TO SAY.
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Alistair
Tiger Talk Pro
Reged: May 17 2006
Posts: 572
Loc: New Zealand
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Usually peoples' actions towards others tell you more about them than it does about the people they are taking action against (if you get my drift).
Quite possibly they are scared; one of the largest and most powerful nations in the world seems (to them and others) to be taking whatever action it deems necessary without solid basis in fact (e.g. "weapons of mass destruction" or lack of). The fact that they (or any other small country) could be in the firing line next may be prompting much of this anti-American backlash. If you need a metaphor, imagine being at school again - one of the kids in your year is much bigger than most others, and recently seems to be picking on people. How would you feel about him?
Hopefully this is all level headed enough! I don't know if I'm too level headed really, I'd like to think so! 
I'm a teetotaller (since I was 18), but there's nothing stopping you boozing! 
We're all drummers here - let's argue, but then put it behind us!
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Tea Bag
Tiger Talk Pro
Reged: Sep 16 2004
Posts: 1410
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
LAST YEAR,AT GIANTS STADIUM,TEAM USA PLAYED TEAM MEXICO. WHEN THE MEXICAN NATIONAL ANTHEM WAS PLAYED EVERYONE,AMERICANS INCLUDED,STOOD SILENTLY. WHEN THE AMERICAN ANTHEM WAS PLAYED THESE MEXICANS AND I MEAN MOST OF THEM BOOED AS LOUDLY AS THEY COULD.
OMG - if true, that's so wrong on so many levels! That's absolutely disgusting - anyone that would boo another countries anthem - in the host country no less - are nothing but low class pigs. I heard a similar story at one of those beauty pageants in Mexico City where the host country crowd booed Miss USA everytime she took the stage.. not that I'm into that sort of thing, but crowd behaviour like that is beneath contempt.. it says more about the 'booers' than it does about the message they are trying to get across - ignorant swine!
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awfulldrummer
Tiger Talk Pro
Reged: Jun 26 2007
Posts: 984
Loc: the internet
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that's a shame but it does happen to us(the usa) alot.
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ALS
Tiger Talk Trainee
Reged: Feb 05 2008
Posts: 26
Loc: WARREN COUNTY,NJ
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AAH,YES...THE BULLY AT SCHOOL. THE LAST THING I WOULD DO IS ANTAGONIZE HIM ! IF I HEARD HE WAS PICKING ON PEOPLE,I'D SURE AS HECK MAKE GOOD FRIENDS WITH HIM. NOW,WITHOUT GOING INTO A LONG DISCOURSE ON IRAQ,BE CLEAR ON ONE THING: THE MUSLIMS ATTACKED NEW YORK AND KILLED ALMOST 3,000 PEOPLE. MANY OF THEM WERE FOREIGN VISITORS AND BUSINESSMEN FROM OTHER COUNTRIES. THE MUSLIM PIGS THAN DECLARED WAR ON THE U.S. AND ALL IT'S ALLIES.THEY DID THIS IN FRONT OF THE WHOLE WORLD. WHAT RESPONSE SHOULD WE HAVE GIVEN ? THEY SWORE "DEATH TO AMERICA". WELL EXCUSE ME FOR GOING INTO IRAQ AND KILLING AS MANY MAD DOGS AS POSSIBLE. THEY ASKED FOR IT. ONE FINAL QUESTION FOR EVERYONE OUT THERE: NAME A COUNTRY THAT HAS A MUSLIM POPULATION OF MORE THAN A FEW THOUSAND THAT IS NOT HAVING A PROBLEM WITH THEM ? YOU CAN'T.
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Alistair
Tiger Talk Pro
Reged: May 17 2006
Posts: 572
Loc: New Zealand
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No, not the bully. You misunderstood me - I mean one of the biggest kids (i.e. more powerful). Bullies can be of all shapes or sizes.
If you look at past Muslim uprisings, often the cry is "death to...". A lot of the time they have fizzled out. In order to continue with your argument, I would have to agree/disagree on whether Al Qaeda and Iraq are linked. Whether that is true or not is a whole other can of worms.
Al Qaeda is not representing mainstream Muslim beliefs - most of the Muslim beliefs are similar to Christian and Jewish beliefs.
Iraq was being supplied by Britain and the USA in the 80's so they would stand up to Iran. Then these supplied weapons get turned on Britain and USA later on, when they decide Saddam probably wasn't quite the right guy for the job.
NZ has a Muslim population - the only trouble we get is people attacking them when events out in the world reflect badly on them.
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ALS
Tiger Talk Trainee
Reged: Feb 05 2008
Posts: 26
Loc: WARREN COUNTY,NJ
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IF YOU HAVEN'T HAD A PROBLEM WITH THEM YET,YOU WILL.JUST ASK YOUR AUSSIE NEIGHBORS. THESE MUSLIMS MOVE TO OTHER COUNTRIES SAYING THEY WANT RELIGIOUS PEACE. THEN THEY ALWAYS INSIST THAT THEIR NEW HOST COUNTRY BEND OVER BACKWARDS TO CATER TO THEM. I'LL GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE:A FEW YEARS AGO,MY UNCLE AND I TRAVELED TO THE PHILLIPINES FOR THE WORLD BOWLING COMPETITION. WHILE THERE,WE ASKED OUR PHILLIPINO FRIENDS TO TAKE US TO MINDENAO,A WORLD WAR 2 MEMORIAL. WE WERE TOLD THAT THEY WOULDN'T GO THERE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE. THAT PART OF THEIR COUNTRY HAS BEEN SETTLED BY MUSLIMS AND EVEN THE PHILLIPINE POLICE STAY AWAY. THE MAD DOGS MADE IT CLEAR THAT THEY DON'T WANT "OUTSIDERS" IN THEIR COMMUNITY.I HATE TO SAY THIS,BUT IT WILL HAPPEN TO YOUR WONDERFUL COUNTRY ALSO IF YOU DON'T WATCH THEM CAREFULLY. ASK ANY LONDONER,OR ANY BRIT FOR THAT MATTER WHAT THEY THINK OF MUSLIMS. AND DON'T THINK IT'S BECAUSE ENGLAND IS AN ALLY OF THE USA. MUSLIMS HAVE BEEN CAUSING TROUBLE,STARTING WITH LONDON, SINCE THE 70'S. LONG BEFORE IRAQ AND IRAN BECAME ISSUES. ONE LAST THING...I HOPE YOU'RE NOT ONE OF THOSE LIBERALS WHO THINK IT'S NEVER THE CRIMINALS FAULT.
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Alistair
Tiger Talk Pro
Reged: May 17 2006
Posts: 572
Loc: New Zealand
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I really don't know about Aussie's troubles with Muslims. As for catering for new migrants, countries have had to do that right throughout the course of history. Those Native Americans for instance; or Maori over here - just another way to look at it.
The Muslims and the Christians have had a love/hate relationship over the years; just think of the Crusades (and you can't tell me it was the Muslims' fault). We learned more from them than we did from any other culture during that time - Muslims helped sustain and spread knowledge throughout the 'Dark Ages' in Europe.
I don't think it's never the criminals' fault though. I do believe you have to look at a situation from more than one perspective before you can understand it.
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