ALS
Tiger Talk Trainee
Reged: Feb 05 2008
Posts: 26
Loc: WARREN COUNTY,NJ
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L CAN'T IMAGINE WHERE YOU GET YOUR INFORMATION FROM. MUSLIMS HAVE BEEN KILLING CHRISTIANS AND JEWS SINCE THE BEGINNING. CHRISTIANS, CATHOLICS ACTUALLY,FINALLY HAD ENOUGH AND THE CRUSADES TOOK PLACE. IT WAS IN THE THIRD CRUSADE THAT THE MUSLIMS GAINED SUBSTANTIAL VICTORY AND OVERRAN SPAIN AND PORTUGAL. THERE IS A LARGE POPULATION OF MUSLIMS IN THESE COUNTRIES EVEN TODAY. AND REALLY...THINK ABOUT IT. WHAT DID THE MUSLIMS EVER TEACH ANYBODY EXCEPT HOW TO BE TERRORISTS ? PLEASE NAME A CONTRIBUTION THAT THE MUSLIMS HAVE MADE IN WORLD SOCIETY? ASK ANYONE YOU MEET TO NAME 4 GREAT MUSLIMS. THEY CAN'T. NO ONE CAN. MUSLIMS CONSIDER ANY NON-MUSLIMS BENEATH THEM. AS THE KORAN SAYS "KILL THE INFIDELS" AND I'M AFRAID TO SAY THIS,MY FRIEND,BUT ARE AN INFIDEL IN THEIR EYES. YOU ARE "TOLERATED" AND THAT'S IT. I SPENT 20 YEARS TEACHING IN A TRADE SCHOOL. MOST OF MY STUDENTS WERE BETWEEN 20 AND 30 YRS. OLD. I DEALT WITH MUSLIM STUDENTS ON A 1 ON 1 BASIS FOR ALL THOSE YEARS. AND BELIEVE ME, THEY ARE ARROGANT, COLD AND UNTRUSTWORTHY. AFTER HOURS,WE HAD SOME LIVELY DEBATES. THEY ABSOLUTELY REFUSE TO SEE ANY POINT OF VIEW BUT THEIR OWN. IF YOU'RE NOT A MUSLIM,YOUR OPINION IS SIMPLY DISMISSED OUT OF HAND. IT'S THE ONLY RELIGION WHERE THE DIFFERENT SECTS KILL EACH OTHER. IMAGINE WHAT YOU WOULD THINK IF LUTHERANS STARTED KILLING BAPTISTS BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT FOLLOWING THE BIBLE "CORRECTLY " THIS IS JUST ONE OF MANY EXAMPLES. PLEASE BE CAREFUL...YOU HAVE A GREAT COUNTRY,BUT IT'S TOO SMALL TO SUPPORT A LARGE MUSLIM POPULATION.
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Alistair
Tiger Talk Pro
Reged: May 17 2006
Posts: 572
Loc: New Zealand
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The crusades started to ensure that Christian pilgrims could gain access to the Holy Land, particularly Jerusalem.
Compared to Christian parts of Spain, the Muslim parts were 'enlightened' and more modern: better sanitation for example.
As for what Muslims have taught us - most modern medical treatment and theory has a foundation in Islamic medicine. They either passed down knowledge from the 'ancients' (which the rest of Europe forgot about - hence the 'Dark Ages') or discovered knowledge of their own.
Yes, they did help create the 'assassin', but that was only a small sect of their faith.
Mathematics as we know it is largely down to Islamic developments.
You are talking about Muslims nowadays - every society goes through stages; it's zenith and nadir.
And the comment about Lutherans killing Baptists - have you not heard of the 30 years war? the Spanish Armada? Catholics vs Protestants?
As for where I get my knowledge from - I studied Medieval History and Religion at University...
Edited by Alistair (Tue Jul 22 2008 04:53 PM)
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ALS
Tiger Talk Trainee
Reged: Feb 05 2008
Posts: 26
Loc: WARREN COUNTY,NJ
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WHO WAS YOUR PROFESSOR ? BETTER SANITATION ?! EVEN TODAY,THESE PEOPLE IN THE MIDDLE EAST STILL SQUAT OVER A HOLE IN THE FLOOR. EXCEPT THE WEALTHY. MY BROTHER WENT TO ISRAEL ON A TOUR ABOUT 6 OR 7 YEARS AGO. HE SAID MOST OF THE CITIES HE SAW WERE LIKE MOST OF THE CITIES IN DEVELOPED COUNTRIES.WHILE JUST ACROSS THE BORDER,THE MUSLIM COMMUNITIES HE SAW WERE SLUMS. AND ANCIENT GREEKS AND ROMANS GAVE US SO MUCH MORE IN MEDICINE AND MATHEMATICS THAN THE MUSLIMS,IT'S LAUGHABLE. ARISTOTLE,HYPOCRATES, PLATO ETC. WERE DEFINATELY NOT MUSLIMS.EGYPT WAS ONCE ONE OF THE GREATEST SOCIETIES ON EARTH. NOW THAT ISLAM IS FIRMLY ENTRENCHED THERE,THEY HAVE NOTHING TO OFFER ANYBODY.
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Alistair
Tiger Talk Pro
Reged: May 17 2006
Posts: 572
Loc: New Zealand
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The Muslim areas did have better sanitation than the Christian areas - squatting over a hole was better than chucking s**t in open sewers...
And, as I said above, we wouldn't know anything about ancient Roman or Greek knowledge nowadays, if the Muslims hadn't kept that knowledge alive.
Also, like I said above, each culture goes through peaks and troughs. The peak of Islamic culture was during Western Europe's 'Dark Ages'. You keep referring to Islamic culture nowadays, as if nothing would change in a culture over 1200 years; of course it will!
Please do some research on this before dismissing out of hand what I am saying.
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ALS
Tiger Talk Trainee
Reged: Feb 05 2008
Posts: 26
Loc: WARREN COUNTY,NJ
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LOOK...I AM TALKING ABOUT TODAY ! REHASHING WHAT HAPPENED 500 YEARS AGO WON'T CHANGE ANYTHING. I CAN'T UNDERSTAND WHY YOU KEEP DEFENDING MUSLIMS. THESE SUB-CREATURES ARE RUINING OR WILL SOMEDAY RUIN EVERY COUNTRY THEY CAN. AND YOU BETTER TAKE THIS TO HEART, YOUNG MAN:WHEN THE SHOOTING STARTS(AND IT WILL WITHIN 20 YRS)YOU AND YOUR FAMILY WILL BE AMONG THE FIRST CASUALTIES. FOR YOU WILL HAVE TURNED YOUR BACK TO THE ENEMY THINKING HE WON'T HURT YOU BECAUSE YOU'RE NICE. AND I'M STILL WAITING FOR YOU TO NAME 4 MUSLIMS WHO HAVE ADDED SOMETHING POSITIVE TO WORLD SOCIETY. I'LL EVEN GIVE YOU A HEAD START:MOHAMMED ALI
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Alistair
Tiger Talk Pro
Reged: May 17 2006
Posts: 572
Loc: New Zealand
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In order to understand the future, you need to have an appreciation of what has happened before. Since you seem to be so one-sided, I'm just arguing the opposite point of view.
You don't need to be patronising or threatening in order to get your point across.
Why just name 4 Muslims? Benazir Bhutto, Cat Stevens, Mohammed Ali, Khalid ibn Yazid (Calid).
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ALS
Tiger Talk Trainee
Reged: Feb 05 2008
Posts: 26
Loc: WARREN COUNTY,NJ
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I WILL ADMIT,YOU'RE THE FIRST PERSON I'VE MET WHO CAN NAME ANY MUSLIMS AT ALL. I GUESS YOU COULD INCLUDE CAT STEVENS. I'M NOT BEING PATRONIZING OR THREATENING. I'M TRYING TO WARN YOU OF IMPENDING DANGER. YOU JUST SEEM TO BE TOO NAIVE TO RECOGNIZE IT.
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awfulldrummer
Tiger Talk Pro
Reged: Jun 26 2007
Posts: 984
Loc: the internet
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ALS, Alistair doesn't seem to be naive to me like he said he is just arguing the opposite point of view! A point counterpoint thing. i've been following this thread. i have my opinions on the subject, and i'm intersted in both of yours! it's a touchy subject and i've been irritated and intrigued while reading. ALS you do come off as one sided, and i can't say i have diagreed with you much on the subject, but i haven't disagreed with Alistair at all! so i guess i'm of no help to you guys on this,lol.
so then what does everyone think of Obama and McCain?
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Alistair
Tiger Talk Pro
Reged: May 17 2006
Posts: 572
Loc: New Zealand
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Cat Stevens is now called Yusuf Islam (I think) - and has converted to Islam, so he is a Muslim.
I could add plenty more to that list as well, but (I hope) we're not scoring points here.
I don't think I'm being naive about the threat which modern Islam poses, especially in NZ, nor complacent. The only way to find out will be to wait and see.
It may be better if we both just agree to disagree.
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awfulldrummer
Tiger Talk Pro
Reged: Jun 26 2007
Posts: 984
Loc: the internet
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i think the muslims that are causing the problems are a minority of radicalist! there are just as many radical christians in this world too!
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