Iguana
Tiger Talk Pro
Reged: May 14 2003
Posts: 109
Loc: Wisconsin
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You hit it on the one Bear . The way I'm learning it , the Moeller requires a relaxed grip and a loose , natural feel . I started hearing about the two techniques almost at the same time I started playing (lucky I guess ) . At the end of the day , a great techique that doesn't suit you is a waste of time .
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Ratamatatt
Tiger Talk Pro
Reged: Jul 02 2003
Posts: 2036
Loc: Arrakis
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quote:
Originally posted by bear45:
Is there any difference between the Billy Glastone method and the Sanford Moeller method?
In a nutshell, the Gladstone method maximizes the natural rebound of the stick so that you can play faster and longer and remain relaxed. There is no upstroke, only downstrokes. You basically throw the stick down on the drumhead while keeping the fingers, hand and wrist so relaxed that the rebound bounces the stick back up which pulls the hand up. It takes some practice at slow tempos to learn it correctly. Tiger Bill's "building monster chops" lessons tell you everything you need to know.
The Moeller method is a whipping action that involves both a downstroke and an upstroke OF THE HAND. The point is to generate multiple stick strokes with a single hand stroke. Again it takes practice to get the fingers, hands and wrists to remain relaxed enough to allow multiple stick strokes.
Hint: Almost all drummers use the Moeller method while playing a grove on the high hats even if they don't realize it. You whip the stick down on the high hat striking the edge of the hats with the shoulder of the stick - that's a downstroke with the hand and the stick. Then while your hand is on the upstroke you let your wrist flop down so that the tip of the stick comes down and hits the top hat while the hand is on the upstroke. That's two stick strokes with a single hand stroke. You can play 3, 4 or more stick stokes with a single hand stroke.
From what I've seen, the Moeller method is most useful as an accenting technique. Check out Jim Chapin's video "Speed, Power, Control & Endurance."
I think the Gladstone and Moeller methods work perfectly together. Picture playing a fast single stroke roll using the Gladstone "rebound" technique. Then suppose you want to play some accents. For each accented note, the hand comes up (with the wrist totally limp and the stick pointing down) and then whips the stick down onto the drumhead.
Hope this was helpful.
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bear45
Tiger Talk Pro
Reged: Dec 27 2003
Posts: 120
Loc: CT
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Ratamat.......now it's getting there, thanks.
You have helped!
I will have to view the Chapin video.
Now if you could answer another question.
What does the Joe Morello video have in it that I can also get something out of. Are they going to have conflicting things?
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TigerBill
Tiger Talk Pro
Reged: Mar 11 2002
Posts: 1545
Loc: NJ
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To add a couple of my own observations on the Gladstone vs. Moeller dilemma, don't worry so much about the exact grip you use (French, German, American). If you really break it down, you'll realize that you use all 3 (at various times) as you move around the drumset.
In a nutshell (and in my approach to playing), I apply the Gladstone technique to all strokes played and I employ a modified Moeller method for certain styles of accenting.
Much more detail will be found in my upcoming book and DVD on Monster Chops. ![[Cool]](/ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif)
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bear45
Tiger Talk Pro
Reged: Dec 27 2003
Posts: 120
Loc: CT
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Cool, TB!
I pretty much figured what you said here, after thinking through all this.
I'll look forward to new the stuff!
Thanks all~!
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Robin123
Tiger Talk Trainee
Reged: Oct 02 2006
Posts: 1
Loc: Falls Church, VA
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This is a fascinating subject - my research and practice has led me to these conclusions: The key to the Gladstone technique is that the hand propels the stick down very quickly (even if you are playing very slowly); and you must relax your grip (whatever grip you use) so that the stick rebounds without any motion on your part. Therefore, you make only one motion - down stick. Dom Famularo's book "It's your move" is the best resource for explaining this. Jim Chapin calls it "stop at the top"; Joe Morello calls it the "full stroke" or the "free stroke" It's all about getting the stick to rebound back by itself. That's why you have to "throw" the stick down very fast. The faster you throw it, the more energy it will have and the greater the rebound force. Now the "Gladstone" technique also implies two other concepts: upstrokes/downstrokes (control strokes) and stick height. Again, check Dom Famularo's book or Joe Morello's DVD for this.
So what is the Moeller technique: the whiping motion. Juim Chapin's video gives the best lessons on it.
The biggest and most important technique that you need to incorporate into BOTH the Moeller and Gladstone methods concerns the fingers.
The most important thing that I discovered was that you have to use all of these techniques together with the fingers in order to make them really work.
I found that the fingers really help you get much more rebound when you throw the stick down.
So what is the finger technique (which all these other techniques are strangely silent about)? I only found 1 book that covers this subject in any depth: "Technique Petters" by Gary Chaffee.
Now what about the grip or hold. Don't get hung up on it. You can use differnt types of grips and fulcrums and different fingers. The key is to relax your hand, and work on techniques that give you a good bounce. I am oversimplying it, but if you keep in mind the key points: throwing down with speed and power to get rebounding force, and always trying to relax the hands and minimize tension, you can teach yourself alot as you work through basic snare drum exercises, rudiments, etc. Get a copy of George Stone's "Stick Control" and just start working through the simple exercises while you incorpoate these techniques: I.e. Gladstone "free stroke", Moeller "whipping" and the "fingers"
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rbergsohn
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