Neil_Gray
Tiger Talk Pro
Reged: Feb 15 2004
Posts: 548
Loc: Canada
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Hi everyone,
In my city there's a guy selling a set of these drums for a $1000 Canadian. I'm not sure where to look to find out the worth of a set of vintage drums. He doesn't say what condition they're in but from the sounds of the ad they've been played but well taken care of.
What's your take on it?
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Its all about the notes you don't play.
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Pywacket
Tiger Talk Pro
Reged: Nov 21 2005
Posts: 642
Loc: WALES, UK.
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Here's a link to a vintage drum website Neil. Doesn't seem to give a price guide but does tell you a little about the make. Hope it helps.
http://www.vintagedrumguide.com/
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"Never Turn Your Back On A Friend"
Edited by Pywacket (Sat Feb 13 2010 10:52 PM)
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roger strange
Tiger Talk Pro
Reged: Dec 09 2003
Posts: 1650
Loc: Nova Scotia Canada
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Autocrats were basically Premier made shells and Ajax hardware. Premier absorbed John Grey/Autocrat somewhere in the early to mid 50s because John Grey made the best Pipe drums in the world and took over the top place in the pipe drum market which they still have today. Ajax hardware was the toughest hardware of the day until Rogers emerged in the U.S. Definitey a collectors drum these days.
Edited by roger strange (Sun Feb 14 2010 01:33 AM)
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Tea Bag
Tiger Talk Pro
Reged: Sep 16 2004
Posts: 1423
Loc: Canada
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Here's a bit of trivia.. I know nothing about this brand or it's history, but Ringo's first set of drums were made by Ajax.
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roger strange
Tiger Talk Pro
Reged: Dec 09 2003
Posts: 1650
Loc: Nova Scotia Canada
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Ajax was the workhorse of the Brit drums. They made a brass snare which was straight wall and had cast rims suitable for a sherman tank that today would be called Bellbrass that they sold for the equivalent of about 40.00 U.S. in the late 30s to 1945. It weighed a ton and played like a dream. They had the toughest of all the British hardware. Made of steel and solid rod steel stuff all nickel plated.Also the lug casings were always fitted with brass inserts. The lug casings were steel not bread and butter cast.
You never had to use cases with that stuff. Nothing cast, shells that could stand a nine pound sledge blow and not crack and you could drag them around on the back of trucks and in the side luggage compartment of a Brit Taxi in the rain, fog, sleet or probably even in a hurricane. Their wraps were about 1/8th inch thick and were full glued to the shells as part of the shell. They of course were built for calf skin and had huge resonance when you needed them. Just the sort of kit to haul around the streets of Liverpool in a hand wagon in any weather.
Edited by roger strange (Sun Feb 14 2010 08:07 AM)
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Neil_Gray
Tiger Talk Pro
Reged: Feb 15 2004
Posts: 548
Loc: Canada
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Thanks for the quick reply everyone! This forum is a dream.
Roger, since you seem to have a strong background on them and you're living in Canada. Do you think a $1000 is a good price?
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Its all about the notes you don't play.
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Pywacket
Tiger Talk Pro
Reged: Nov 21 2005
Posts: 642
Loc: WALES, UK.
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My first kit in 1968 was a Premier but the first kit I ever played on was a friends Ajax. Loved em!
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"Never Turn Your Back On A Friend"
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roger strange
Tiger Talk Pro
Reged: Dec 09 2003
Posts: 1650
Loc: Nova Scotia Canada
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Depends on the condition really. if there is a lot of rust and lifting in the wrap it's too high. However for a kit of Autocrat in good condition that would be about the going price around here although I've seen them go for less. I've seen Rogers mid 60s Holidays, older Slingerlands and mid 60s Gretsch or Ludwig go for about a grand around here. With older drums, especially older Brit drums around here it's less. A collector friend of mine picked up a four peice late 40s Leedy for 450.00 8 years ago and 6 years ago hooked a set of late 40s Gretsch Broadkasters for 600.00. Both in Prime shape. Depends on how badly you want them really. I still tech for collectors around here and the Brit drums go for less than the classic American or Sonor drums I find. At a grand those drums should be immaculate including the snare strainer, and the tension lugs should have clean threads and the recievers for the rods should be tight. Scuff marks are acceptable. Deep scratches or gouges are not at that price. Go over them carefully and make sure the retainer rings on the shells are not lifting from the shells and the plys are not parting anywhere. All the hardware nuts and bolts should be original and work well. heads it doesn't matter, but if they have original heads that's even better. At least for collecting. And make sure the shell sizes are not metric. If they are and you plan to play them you will have trouble getting a head fit with metric shells. I believe Remo will still make metric measure heads on special order. I do find that classic Brit drums and older can be a bit of a nightmare for maintenance myself but in good shape they make great collector's pieces and play well in medium and light situations.
Edited by roger strange (Mon Feb 15 2010 04:28 PM)
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Ratamatatt
Tiger Talk Pro
Reged: Jul 02 2003
Posts: 2236
Loc: Arrakis
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Roger, you are da man. But, I'll tell you what, on ebay, vintage drums like Gretsch, Rogers, Ludwig, etc., in good aesthetic condition, are priced on par with solid 24k gold. It seems everyone thinks their beat up POG ("vintage") kit is the holy grail of drums or something. Especially a 60's Gretsch "Round Badge" kits in "bop sizes" made with 6 ply, maple/gum "Jasper" shells. I mean, serious buyers with money burning a hole in their pockets hyperventilate over that stuff. I don't get it.
PS: Here are a few examples:
This Gretsch isn't even a Round Badge: 
http://cgi.ebay.com/GRETSCH-SSB-KIT-18-B...=item2c52ca727f
This Ludwig in rock sizes has a "Beatles" logo bass head, so I guess that explains the slide of the dicimal point one integer to the left:
http://cgi.ebay.com/1968-LUDWIG-BLACK-OY...=item45f113f34b
Edited by Ratamatatt (Tue Feb 16 2010 06:09 AM)
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Neil_Gray
Tiger Talk Pro
Reged: Feb 15 2004
Posts: 548
Loc: Canada
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Roger, you are a wealth of knowledge! I think I'm gonna let this one pass. I'm looking for an older bebop, "club" style drum kit for the type of sound I'm going for. So it would be a kit I would be playing regularly.
Again thanks! I'll be asking a lot of questions about older kits on this forum in the next while.
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Its all about the notes you don't play.
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