Cody
Tiger Talk Pro
Reged: Nov 15 2003
Posts: 278
Loc: Wisconsin
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Ok before you yell at me, I have read the Drum Tuning bible like 20 million times. I am having serious trouble tuning my drums though. I feel like I can get pretty close when I tune my toms but my snare irritates me. I understand all the concepts, I know how I want to tune it, and I can get it close, but never truly in tune. All my bearing edges are perfect, no warped shells, true and straight rims, all new heads...Any tips would be very helpful. I have a feeling its something to do with my seating. I dont know if Im going far enough, but I have a mapex black panther with nice sharp bearing edges so I didnt really think I had to.
P.S. I have a drum dail, but im not a fan.
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A drummers everystep is music.
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James Walker
Tiger Talk Pro
Reged: Mar 18 2002
Posts: 1283
Loc: Connecticut
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How is the drum failing to live up to your expectations, sonically speaking?
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moderator, mallet forum
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Cody
Tiger Talk Pro
Reged: Nov 15 2003
Posts: 278
Loc: Wisconsin
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Well, my snare specifically, it really doesnt cut as much as I would like it to. I feel like the rim shots overpower, but normal playing gets buried, and ghost notes are almost inaudible. I like a real crisp but warm sounding snare. I love my black panther just never been able to make it sing like I wished. Right now I have my resonant tuned a little higher than my batter. Also I think this issue might have something to do with my snares, I use the 30 strand beast because I figured the bigger the better...and im not sold on this anymore. I was going to go try out some puresounds soon but any help with what to choose would be great.
Other than that I like how my toms come through, and my kick I just have no clue. I want to have clear attack because I play very fast alternates frequently, but I also want a really low and powerful kick. I dont know if thats possible, but I can dream. Right now I have my resonant tuned to its lowest possible pitch and my batter is tuned a fifth higher.
The problem Im having is just getting the drums in tune with themselves. Getting all the lugs even seems like an impossible feet for me.
Just to let you know what kind of heads Im using...
snare- Batter: Evans HD dry
Resonant: Evans Hazy 300 (I wanted 200 but they gave me the wrong one)
Toms- Batter: Evans EC2 (kinda mad at these)
Resonant: Evans genera resonant
Kick- Batter: Aquarian Super Kick II
Resonant: Evans Emad Resonant
P.S. I mostly play smaller club settings and am usually close miced.
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A drummers everystep is music.
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James Walker
Tiger Talk Pro
Reged: Mar 18 2002
Posts: 1283
Loc: Connecticut
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Quote:
Well, my snare specifically, it really doesnt cut as much as I would like it to. I feel like the rim shots overpower, but normal playing gets buried, and ghost notes are almost inaudible.
(...)
Just to let you know what kind of heads Im using...
snare- Batter: Evans HD dry
There ya go.
I haven't used one of those in a while, but IIRC (and please correct me if I'm mistaken), that's a two-ply head, with a damping ring around the edge, and vent holes around the perimeter - basically an "everything but the kitchen sink" inclusion of muffling technology that can be built into a drum head.
I'd suggest taking a few steps back from that extreme - either go with a plain two-ply head, or a Genera Dry, which I don't believe is as muffled as an HD Dry.
Going with a 200-weight snare side head will help.
The one setup where I really liked the HD Dry as a batter was on a steel Yamaha snare drum, and I ended up using 42-strand snares, which helped to recoup some of the snare response at lower volumes which were hindered by the HD Dry. It gave me a very nice "muffled Steve Gadd snare drum" sound.
For me, a big key to snare response at lower dynamic levels is for the batter head not to be too thick where it makes contact with the bearing edge. Have you tried a single-ply head, combined with some sort of external damping techniques (moongel, gaffa, o-ring, external tone control, etc.)?
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roger strange
Tiger Talk Pro
Reged: Dec 09 2003
Posts: 1650
Loc: Nova Scotia Canada
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Right. This is what I found really gets things cutting with or without rim shots.
Single ply Aquarian or Evans G-1 coated batters. Standard Aquarian or 200 Evans snare side. Puresound Blaster snare wires, snare side tuned about one third BELOW the batter for dense cut. I had a Panther Maple cast rims snare a while back and used standard Remo Ambassador coated batter, Ambassador snare-side, Puresound blasters and tuned the snare-side one third BELOW the batter or thereabouts. It spoke beautifully. Later I had the metal version of the same snare and I tuned it the same, using Evans G-1 coated batter and Evans 200 snare-side. That drum was really loud and I had to calm it down a bit with moongel. But I never use anything more dampening than either an Evans single ply dry or some moongel. I have used a Jack DeJohnette snare side Aquarian batter from time to time and that puppy roars. I definitely have to use moongel with that head on my GMS SE and especailly when I use the Firchie snare I trot out every now and then. There are times when I tension the snare-side higher than the batter but after a while I always revert to the old Rogers Dynasonic thinking on ten luggers of tuning the snare-side a third or so lower than the batter. Seems to make the snare wires less prone to buzz when toms are hit.
Puresound also make a snare wire that is slightly flanged on the plate corners which prevents sympathetic buzz, and I have used one of those lateley a bit. However I like the more dense robust sound of the blasters so I cut to the chase and mounted my normal blaster wires onto the newer cottar pin fastening system the buzz busters use. Works perfectly. However, If I were you I'd go to single ply batters and tune the snare side down a bit. I found that for a long while the single ply dry Evans did a great job but right now I use an Aquarian coated and Aquarian snare side and at times I'll mount the DeJohnette if I want a real bark and strong ghost note sound. You can get the same thing out of an Aquarian modern vintage batter as the DeJohnette but with a little higher top end.
Edited by roger strange (Thu Apr 21 2011 04:51 PM)
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Cody
Tiger Talk Pro
Reged: Nov 15 2003
Posts: 278
Loc: Wisconsin
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I never used the a single ply head for my snares because I am a pretty hard hitter, but I have yet to ever break a snare head, or even dish it out before I replace it. The HD dry was a recent attempt, the engineer for my album recommended I try it for the studio but I guess that doesnt really go across the board. Maybe I will try out the Aquarian single plys. Ive always loved my superkick II, I dont know why I never tried their other heads. Never been into Remos though. I guess its just like Ive been into Zildjian's.
I only started tuning my reso up recently as well after rereading the DTB. I will try tuning it down again now that Im better at over all tuning.
So as far as snares go...I've heard puresound is the only way to go, but I noticed they have a lot of choices. Are the blasters the way to go? I dont really mind sympathetic buzz that much. What strand count do I go with?
And how bout the kick?
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A drummers everystep is music.
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Tea Bag
Tiger Talk Pro
Reged: Sep 16 2004
Posts: 1423
Loc: Canada
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I've always been a coated single ply snare head guy.. and finally decided to take the plunge and try a kind of double ply - the Aquarian tone control (similar to a power dot on the underside). Just wanted to see how it records and how it sounds in a small practice room, or if it would work on stage. Just in case it's overkill I also ordered the Aquarian coated single ply batter. The thing about singles is you can always dampen them if they're too ringy - usually a small piece of moongel does the trick, and you can get a fuller dynamic range than a double ply .. it really depends on the kind of music and sound you're after. I play classic rock covers in one band, a folk rock (originals) band and a Blues Brothers tribute band. I do love the sound of the Evans G1 coated but I also find I wear them out regularly. I did try Aquarian single ply coated on a tom once and I'd have to say it lasted forever and never lost it's tuning. So it will be interesting to see how these two Aquarian heads stack up on the snare.
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roger strange
Tiger Talk Pro
Reged: Dec 09 2003
Posts: 1650
Loc: Nova Scotia Canada
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I've always used single ply heads and I CAN HIT VERY HARD!
When it comes to heavy playing I am a Moeller player and I can really let loose some pyrotechnics with full Moeller on that GMS SE snare I use, or the Bubinga Tama I get to use sometimes when I play back line supplied stuff.
Double plys just choke out the drum and are harder on the hands. I've blown snare-side thin heads hitting hard and ended up with the medium weight snare-sides but I wouldn't use a double ply as a snare batter if you had a gun to my head. If I really want kick on the snare I'll use the Aquarian DeJohnette batter but of late the Aquarian coated single ply does the job just fine from fusion Jazz through electric rockin' Blues to Hard rock and it plays well in less dynamic music too.
Puresound blasters are usually 20 strand wires and that's all I use. Good strong snare sound,
Lots of density when you need it and plays well with ghost notes as well. If there's any odd ring in a snare with single ply medium weight heads in my collection I just slip on a little moongel and let 'er rip. I have used a Remo thing that was made for Weckl from time to time. It mounts up onto the rim and acts like a piston dampener. I like that little item as well because it will pop off the batter head on impact and drop immediatly back down onto the head to kill overtones. I'll use that when I want that wide open sound without ring like Aranoff. You know, that .45 caliber revolver sound that cuts through guitars like a hot knife through butter.
However, I also use the blaster wires in softer music too. They are a general wire bed that can become pretty well anything you want however you are playing. They tend to give a very up front darkish snap with lots of crispness
and really no after buzz to mention. Of course that can depend on what condition your snare strainer is in too.
Edited by roger strange (Wed Apr 27 2011 03:45 PM)
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Cody
Tiger Talk Pro
Reged: Nov 15 2003
Posts: 278
Loc: Wisconsin
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Alright I guess the next snare head I buy is gonna be a single ply. Ive been wanting to try aquarian so Ill try those.
Definitely gonna buy the blasters. Really I only use my set for my metal projects.
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A drummers everystep is music.
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cwdrummer
Tiger Talk Pro
Reged: Dec 29 2006
Posts: 129
Loc: Wilson, Oklahoma, USA
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One thing youre gonna love about a coated Aquarian head..the coating does NOT wear off...at least mine hasnt after 11 months of heavy playing.
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If a man offends thee....give to each of his children- a drum~
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