Tea Bag
Tiger Talk Pro
Reged: Sep 16 2004
Posts: 1423
Loc: Canada
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Over the years I've been gradually refining my go-to kit to get the best possible sound for both live and recording... cymbals, heads, snare drums, etc. I just added a beautiful 13"x 6 1/2" maple snare (to my Yamaha RC birch kit) that has a killer sound. The only thing missing now is my ride cymbal.. I have some decent 20-22" Zildjan (a muddy sounding 70's era 'A' I think) and a clean sounding Sabian AA ride. I'm looking for something in between those two sounds or something better. I'm thinking Paiste Traditional Signature light ride.. or something similar. Something that doesn't get a build up of overtones, cuts well but has that warm, musical sound if you know what I mean. Any suggestions.. as to what is your favorite sounding all-round ride cymbal??
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James Walker
Tiger Talk Pro
Reged: Mar 18 2002
Posts: 1283
Loc: Connecticut
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I've got a couple that come to mind.
- my 20" Paiste prototype - unlathed, very similar to this one: http://www.cymbalsonly.com/cymbals/paiste/pages/dd_mk1_ride.htm. Kind of dry, which I like, but it might be a little too dry for many drummers.
- My 20" and 21" pre-serial Paiste 602s
- My 20" early '50s A Zildjian ride. Just got this one couple of weeks ago, but I'm falling in love with it. Strong bell, clear stick, but with a relatively low overall pitch. Articulate, but not "pingy."
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roger strange
Tiger Talk Pro
Reged: Dec 09 2003
Posts: 1650
Loc: Nova Scotia Canada
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A lot depends on your touch and preferred stick tip of course. I use an older prototype 20" Zildjian Erskine left side ride a lot. It's unlathed and carries three rivets close together. I twin that ride with a right side K Custom dark 22" ride. They seem to work really well together in any type of music I play. Both have good bell sounds and the Erskine does not spread much at all but has great stick definition. The K custom dark does spread a bit but it's more of a deep growl and has great stick definition, andthe spread just goes so far andstops.
I tend to use either the hickory or Maple Vater Fusions or the Vater teardrop maple stick, a lot. If I want a little more spread I can use the Vater maple oval tip which is really the older almost cylinder tip Gretsch Birdland stick and is a little heavier than the other Maples but certainly not as heavy as the Vater fusion hickories. The Fusions are a round ball tip stick, so they give a good bright sound on impact and minimize spread on those cymbals.
Other than that, it's really up to you as to what you comeup with. Basically you just have to take your time since you already have some rides, and go through a lot of rides. You might just find that the cast Turkish Byzance line by Meinl comes up with what you want or of course Paiste in their sheet lines although I've heard some of their 20 cast line which I think sort of fill your bill. However, we all play differently which is the magic of live players and as I said, you really have to go hands on for this job.
Edited by roger strange (Tue Nov 01 2011 09:27 AM)
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Tea Bag
Tiger Talk Pro
Reged: Sep 16 2004
Posts: 1423
Loc: Canada
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Cool looking cymbal - it looks like it could be used in battle as a shield (or for unruly bar patrons!). Our local drum shop just announced the re-release of the 'legendary' 602 line of Paiste. I'll have to check them out.. course I have nothing to compare them to in terms of the vintage ones.
Which makes me wonder .. do cymbals get better with age.. or stay about the same? The drum shop also announced their new 'cymbal cleaning machine' that will restore your cymbals to their pristine shiny glory for about $10 each. I've also heard different views on cleaning cymbals.. does it affect the sound? or is it's just appearance?
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Tea Bag
Tiger Talk Pro
Reged: Sep 16 2004
Posts: 1423
Loc: Canada
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I've been stuck on Vic Virth 5A's (nylon tip) for years.. probably a creature of habit. I have been noticing them breaking a lot more often than they used to.. but maybe I'm just playing harder or more often.. not sure. Maybe time to try something new. In any case I bought my first Vader product last summer - a pair of brushes on a stick handle. They're pretty good but a bit springy.. almost like a lag when you hit the snare.. I was going to try and wrap something around the base of the wires to firm them up a bit.. they do give a really nice spread on the snare for that 'swoosh' sound and feel good in the hand - like a stick!
I'm a big fan of Zildjan - especially after uncovering an amazing 70's Zildjan cymbal in my basement!
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James Walker
Tiger Talk Pro
Reged: Mar 18 2002
Posts: 1283
Loc: Connecticut
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Re: the new 602 rides. The one I tried in the store was lovely, but very washy. Also, if you're looking to contrast a "clean" Sabian AA, a new 602 might not be the way to go; I'll echo Roger and suggest checking out some of the new offerings in the "Twenty" line, if you're in the Paiste section of the store.
My 602s are all pre-serials, dating from 1970 or so, or earlier. Lots of dirt and grime, but I'm not sure how that affects the sound, since I've never heard them "clean."
Re: cymbals sounding better as they age. I've only noticed the difference in cymbals I bought brand new from the cymbalsmith - as in "Dear Jim, I just finished the last bit of lathing and hammering, and I'll get it shipped out to you shortly" brand new. Up to six months or a year, I've noticed some clear differences in the sound and response of the cymbal, as the metal settles following all of that machining. After a year or so, my limited experience has been that at that point a cymbal is what it is. I've had my 22" and 24" pre-serial 602s for about five years now, and I've noticed zero change in the cymbals - not that I expected anything to change in 40 year old cymbals.
I'm sure that the passage of time has an effect, especially if an instrument gets played often during that time, but IMO the reason why older cymbals often sound different to new cymbals is that they were made differently "way back then." For instance, the lathing on my aforementioned 1950s 20" ride is decidedly different from the contemporary Zildjians I've seen.
One other suggestion for a ride: I really like the Sabian "Memphis" rides I've tried. Haven't bought one, simply because my cup runneth over in my current cymbal collection/arsenal. The Memphis ride is pretty much my favorite among the current "big 3" offerings as a general-business ride.
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moderator, mallet forum
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Tea Bag
Tiger Talk Pro
Reged: Sep 16 2004
Posts: 1423
Loc: Canada
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Cool - I'll add the Mephis to my list to check out... and yes I've never noticed any difference re cymbal age. I have polished cymbals several times over the years.. and I can't say if I ever noticed any difference in sound. I remember testing a polished cymbal and couldn't make up mind if it sounded brighter than before - or just looked brighter! Maybe if it had been covered in mud and gum it would make a difference, but just oxidation - not so much.
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roger strange
Tiger Talk Pro
Reged: Dec 09 2003
Posts: 1650
Loc: Nova Scotia Canada
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You cats are about right on all that aging thing. Although I have noticed a difference when I bury an older cymbal perpendicular in the ground in the back yard for about 6 weeks and then bring it out and clean it up using hot water and then polishing it. I've found the same thing with older cymbals if you pop them into the oven in the kitchen and re-temper them also. Those new Zildjian 22" dark K customs aren't all that heavy in weight really. They are just tooled a lot. Mine weighed in at 2694 grams. Mine growls nicely quite low and will spread some and then stop spreading, very controlable. Very musical sound, and can work in a lot of different genres quite well.
I like to keep my cymbals fairly clean because I just like clean gear. Although that Erskine left side ride is not polished and has that definite "I've just come from the blow torch" look and is un-lathed. It just has that really hand handled look to it. Actually it looks almost like a military piece of hardware that's come out of the WW1 trenches. I love it! It looks like a real veteran and since I'm definitley rode hard and put up wet myself in the Music business, it suits me.
Edited by roger strange (Tue Nov 08 2011 01:48 PM)
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Tea Bag
Tiger Talk Pro
Reged: Sep 16 2004
Posts: 1423
Loc: Canada
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Well.. after checking out various cymbals in the stores.. the Paistes were too much for my budget.. and rare to find 2nd hand around here online. But I did pick up a used, beautiful 20" Zildjan K Custom ride (for about half price retail). Awesome bell sound and ride sound; clear definition but warm and full. It's got the right pitch and feel for a lot of the blues/jazz/rock stuff I'm playing these days.. plus it looks awesome with that brilliant finish and light hand hammered texture. Thanks for the advice!
Now I can't stop thinking of adding one more awesome Crash cymbal!
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jeffcorpse
Tiger Talk Pro
Reged: Jul 14 2007
Posts: 31
Loc: KY, USA
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Great! I love my Sabian Paragon, but it is too loud for jazz.
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